Baby loons

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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:39 am

BE LOON AWARE: Boaters and Loons
A Minnesota treasure is the Loon with its beautiful plumage and haunting calls. The loon became our state bird in 1961. Loons make many of Minnesota’s lakes their summer home and nesting area. Upper South Long Lake is very fortunate to be one of those lakes! We must remember and respect that we share the lake with the Loons and all wildlife.
Loon chicks hatch in late June, which coincides with the start of the busy boating season. Loon awareness and responsible watercraft use will help reduce the conflicts that can occur between boaters and loons. There are many ways that watercraft can have a negative effect of loons:
Power boats can send waves crashing into shorelines and loon platforms, drowning nests.
Jet skis can speed in shallow water or near a loon nest and run over chicks.
Boats pulling water skiers and tubers may speed near the loon nest or shorelines where baby loons may be
swimming and run over chicks. Don’t forget that the long rope attached to a tube or water skier has the potential
to get close to a loon nest, tipping it over, soaking the babies or knocking the babies out of the nest.

 Laughing  Guess I'd better be careful not to make too big a wake with my canoe.  Laughing 
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Re: Baby loons

Post  obervantone on Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:27 pm

No link....still waiting page 6

If it is the page I think it might be, you forgot to add this:

CONCLUSION
We have identified several major morality factors in Common Loons.  The reader is cautioned, however, that the causes of mortality reported here can not be interpreted to be representative of actual proportional causes of death in loon population because of sample bias.

...still waiting for the links to YOUR claims regarding speed limits and loons and responsible paddlers and loons.

Our analysis suggests that Isle Royale fledging rates could be increased to levels comparable to that of other loon populations by reducing annual numbers of canoe groups to a level not regularly observed on Isle Royale since the mid-1980's.

Nope, your canoe does not leave an appreciable wake, but you do much worse.

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Re: Baby loons

Post  News Hawk on Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:28 pm

obervantone wrote:News Hawk:
In the OP's source, the writer's first paragraph...!

Loon chicks are hatching on New Hampshire’s lakes, and biologists are asking that people heading to the water for the July Fourth weekend leave the endangered birds alone.

I don't view or set off fireworks on the July Fourth weekend.
And your point is?
Did you think there were no consequences to loud noises? Loud noises are detrimental to the hearing of small children. 'Hope you haven't discovered that on your own. No

People who study birds already know...

Explosions and gunfire scare many animal species, birds included...Protective parental instincts won over their fear and, hopefully, they will again tonight. After this hot and stormy day, Ophelia is already frazzled and doesn’t need the additional stress this fireworks display will bring.
http://www.lansingrec.com/parks/20-salt-point/salt-point-articles/27-on-osprey-time
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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:57 pm

obervantone wrote:No link....still waiting page 6

If it is the page I think it might be, you forgot to add this:

CONCLUSION
We have identified several major morality factors in Common Loons.  The reader is cautioned, however, that the causes of mortality reported here can not be interpreted to be representative of actual proportional causes of death in loon population because of sample bias.

Well actually I don't think it is. But all you would have had to do would be to google: Be loon aware: boaters and loons .......and the article would have popped up faster than a unsuspecting loon surfacing in front of a fast performance boat. Or I could have quoted your earlier post where you say "Do your own research for a change". But here's the link anyway: http://www.usllia.org/downloads/BeLoonAware.pdf

obervantone wrote:

...still waiting for the links to YOUR claims regarding speed limits and loons and responsible paddlers and loons.


Aha...the straw man tactic again. So go back and read my first entry in this thread where I question that one reason for the increasing loon chick population could have been related to the speed limit. But in reality YOU posted the link in the your first post in this thread with an article from the Concord Monitor that states: Biologists say people should stay at least 150 feet away from adult loons and their chicks. Boat collisions are the greatest human-related cause of chick mortality and the third-highest cause of adult loon mortality.
 (But what do they know, they're just biologists)



So stop being a son of bitch Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:13 pm

More examples of straw man arguments:

Straw man arguments often arise in public debates such as a (hypothetical) prohibition debate:

A: We should relax the laws on beer.
B: No, any society with unrestricted access to intoxicants loses its work ethic and goes only for immediate gratification.
The proposal was to relax laws on beer. Person B has exaggerated this to a position harder to defend, i.e., "unrestricted access to intoxicants". It is a logical fallacy because Person A never made that claim.

A: Sunny days are good.
B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death.
In this case, B falsely frames A's claim to imply that A believes only sunny days are good, and B argues against that assertion. A actually asserts that sunny days are good and, in fact, says nothing about rainy days.
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Let's outlaw Independence Day!

Post  obervantone on Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:48 pm

News Hawk Wrote:

   obervantone wrote:News Hawk:

       
  In the OP's source, the writer's first paragraph...!

           Loon chicks are hatching on New Hampshire’s lakes, and biologists are asking that people heading to the water for the July Fourth weekend leave the endangered birds alone.


       I don't view or set off fireworks on the July Fourth weekend.

 
And your point is?

Did you think there were no consequences to loud noises? Loud noises are detrimental to the hearing of small children. 'Hope you haven't discovered that on your own. No

People who study birds already know...

   Explosions and gunfire scare many animal species, birds included...Protective parental instincts won over their fear and, hopefully, they will again tonight. After this hot and stormy day, Ophelia is already frazzled and doesn’t need the additional stress this fireworks display will bring.
   http://www.lansingrec.com/parks/20-salt-point/salt-point-articles/27-on-osprey-time

I expect you to file the appropriate legislation to outlaw celebrating the birth of our Nation in order to prevent frightening birds and animals.   Good luck.

Amy B wrote:
 
 
obervantone wrote:No link....still waiting page 6

   If it is the page I think it might be, you forgot to add this:
     
CONCLUSION
       We have identified several major morality factors in Common Loons.  The reader is cautioned, however, that the causes of mortality reported here can not be interpreted to be representative of actual proportional causes of death in loon population because of sample bias.




Well actually I don't think it is. But all you would have had to do would be to google: Be loon aware: boaters and loons .......and the article would have popped up faster than a unsuspecting loon surfacing in front of a fast performance boat. Or I could have quoted your earlier post where you say "Do your own research for a change". But here's the link anyway: http://www.usllia.org/downloads/BeLoonAware.pdf

   
obervantone wrote:

   ...still waiting for the links to YOUR claims regarding speed limits and loons and responsible paddlers and loons.

You left out:
GIVE LOONS PLENTY OF SPACE and enjoy watching them from a
distance! They need solitude to breed and raise their young.
Approaching too closely can inadvertently cause adult loons to leave
their nests, potentially for long periods of time, causing chilling of
the eggs and failure of the nest!
Something kayakers and canoeists are primarily responsible for.

You also failed to mention:
The biggest danger they face is from humans and human actions.
It takes all of us to watch out for the loons! Harassment of wildlife is
against the law!
Again. primarily canoeists and kayakers...see the report on Isle Royale National Park

You refuse to provide any links to any of your claims regarding speed and loon chick survival and the link that you did finally provide after being embarrassed into it is just a PDF file with ZERO attribution or sourcing leading readers to draw the accurate conclusion that you are unwilling to provide sourcing because it does not exist.  

Have another beer, maybe more "facts" will come to you.

Page 6...still waiting

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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:46 pm

As per your above post, we will not agree on this one. You asked for for documentation of my claims, I gave it to you. Where's your's?
obervantone wrote:

DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO.....SHOULD BE THE NEW SIGNATURE FOR THIS JACK ASS

Actually that could be be the signature for Erica "Hazzard", the forerunner poster girl for your anti speed limit crusade who headed the now disgraced NHRBA before your SBONH took up the cause. I received an email/message today from someone who knows the history of this movement better than I and had been following this thread. He said that you and Red Hill are officers/members of Erica's lost cause reincarnation, SBONH. This explains a lot. "Birds of a feather"(in your case Magpies)... "All for one, one for all". Are you the one he referred to as "Baghdad Bob" whose missive to the faithful got leaked and published in the Laconia Daily Sun? Good grief, no wonder your mission imploded. First the spokesperson for the cause crashes her boat on the rocks and kills her best friend creating national headlines (and national ridicule), and then a rather embarrassing notification to your brethen gets printed in the LDS. You guys are a piece of work. Have you no shame?


Last edited by Amy B on Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:51 pm

Again, my first post:
Amy B wrote:One might argue that the speed limit on the lake has made a major contribution to the loon revival. We know that the chicks are far more buoyant than their parents and less able to maneuver out of harm's way should a performance boat be "doubling the speed limit". This is a good sign.
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Re: Baby loons

Post  obervantone on Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:54 pm

Amy B
Actually that could be be the signature for Erica "Hazzard", the forerunner poster girl for your anti speed limit crusade who headed the now disgraced NHRBA before your SBONH took up the cause. I received an email/message today from someone who knows the history of this movement better than I and had been following this thread. He said that you and Red Hill are officers/members of Erica's lost cause reincarnation, SBONH. This explains a lot. "Birds of a feather"(in your case Magpies)... "All for one, one for all". This explains a lot.  Are you the one he referred to as "Baghdad Bob" whose missive to the faithful got leaked and published in the Laconia Daily Sun? Good grief, no wonder your mission imploded. First the spokesperson for the cause crashes her boat on the rocks and kills her best friend making national headlines, and then a rather embarrassing notification to your brethen gets printed in the LDS. You guys are a piece of work. Have you no shame?

As is the case with your claim that speed limits are impacting loons, you need better sources for the rant that you posted above.  


Amy B

Again, my first post:

   Amy B wrote:One might argue that the speed limit on the lake has made a major contribution to the loon revival. We know that the chicks are far more buoyant than their parents and less able to maneuver out of harm's way should a performance boat be "doubling the speed limit". This is a good sign.

And again Page 6 and I am still waiting for your source...

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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:00 pm

obervantone wrote:
Amy B
Actually that could be be the signature for Erica "Hazzard", the forerunner poster girl for your anti speed limit crusade who headed the now disgraced NHRBA before your SBONH took up the cause. I received an email/message today from someone who knows the history of this movement better than I and had been following this thread. He said that you and Red Hill are officers/members of Erica's lost cause reincarnation, SBONH. This explains a lot. "Birds of a feather"(in your case Magpies)... "All for one, one for all". This explains a lot.  Are you the one he referred to as "Baghdad Bob" whose missive to the faithful got leaked and published in the Laconia Daily Sun? Good grief, no wonder your mission imploded. First the spokesperson for the cause crashes her boat on the rocks and kills her best friend making national headlines, and then a rather embarrassing notification to your brethen gets printed in the LDS. You guys are a piece of work. Have you no shame?

As is the case with your claim that speed limits are impacting loons, you need better sources for the rant that you posted above.  
Amy B

Again, my first post:

   Amy B wrote:One might argue that the speed limit on the lake has made a major contribution to the loon revival. We know that the chicks are far more buoyant than their parents and less able to maneuver out of harm's way should a performance boat be "doubling the speed limit". This is a good sign.

And again Page 6 and I am still waiting for your source...

But I've given it to you several times today, straw man. So give us your side of the Erica Hazzard story. Are you Baghdad Bob? We know RH is the prez. Waiting for the answer.
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Re: Baby loons

Post  obervantone on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 pm

No you have not.  You have linked to an unidentified PDF file.  You could have written it yourself.  Do you know what attribution and a source is?

I am not going to tell you who I am but I will say this much... I am not, nor have I met or know, any of the people that you have mentioned.

Since we are going to play the "I think you really are"  game...I'm thinking the mythical Ed Chase et al has a remarkably similar writing style to yours.


     
Amy B wrote:One might argue that the speed limit on the lake has made a major contribution to the loon revival. We know that the chicks are far more buoyant than their parents and less able to maneuver out of harm's way should a performance boat be "doubling the speed limit". This is a good sign.


And again Page 6 and I am still waiting for your source...


Last edited by obervantone on Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Baby loons

Post  News Hawk on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:28 pm

obervantone wrote:News Hawk Wrote:

   obervantone wrote:News Hawk:

       
  In the OP's source, the writer's first paragraph...!

           Loon chicks are hatching on New Hampshire’s lakes, and biologists are asking that people heading to the water for the July Fourth weekend leave the endangered birds alone.


       I don't view or set off fireworks on the July Fourth weekend.

 
And your point is?

Did you think there were no consequences to loud noises? Loud noises are detrimental to the hearing of small children. 'Hope you haven't discovered that on your own. No

People who study birds already know...

   Explosions and gunfire scare many animal species, birds included...Protective parental instincts won over their fear and, hopefully, they will again tonight. After this hot and stormy day, Ophelia is already frazzled and doesn’t need the additional stress this fireworks display will bring.
   http://www.lansingrec.com/parks/20-salt-point/salt-point-articles/27-on-osprey-time

I expect you to file the appropriate legislation to outlaw celebrating the birth of our Nation in order to prevent frightening birds and animals.   Good luck.

Visitors to Lake Winnipesaukee are still celebrating the birth of our nation this evening, and it's almost August! Most of Wolfeboro can hear it, as the blasts bounce among (and between) the slopes of surrounding hills.

 Sad 


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Re: Baby loons

Post  News Hawk on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:32 pm

Amy B wrote:But I've given it to you several times today, straw man. So give us your side of the Erica Hazzard story. Are you Baghdad Bob? We know RH is the prez. Waiting for the answer.

The Prez is busy in Concord to de-list the Loon as endangered in the state.

 Evil or Very Mad 


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Re: Baby loons

Post  obervantone on Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:19 pm

You really need to do your homework

News Hawk
The Prez is busy in Concord to de-list the Loon as endangered in the state.
The Loon is a 'THREATENED" species in NH, not endangered.
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/Nongame/endangered_list.htm


Visitors to Lake Winnipesaukee are still celebrating the birth of our nation this evening, and it's almost August! Most of Wolfeboro can hear it, as the blasts bounce among (and between) the slopes of surrounding hills.
Only visitors?  No residents are setting off fireworks?  Hmmm  Like to see the source on that as well.   clown

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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:15 am

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/12601843-95/loon-chicks-hatching-on-lakes-boaters-cautioned

But what do they know, they're just biologists!

obervantone wrote:

As is the case with your claim that speed limits are impacting loons, you need better sources for the rant that you posted above.  


Did you say rant?

obervantone wrote:Right...you never saw them AS YOU PADDLED YOUR CANOE!  
Interacting with a loon ...as you say they seem curious....translation, you are taming them and they are losing their fear of boats and people....yet you will be the first to scream bloody murder when your "pets" are killed by a boat because it lost its fear and got in the way and the boat operator didn't see it or could not avoid it.

Your damned right I'm pissed.  You son a bitch - self righteous jackass!   LEAVE THE LOONS ALONE!

You are one classy guy (not). Loons pop up next to paddlers all the time, as earlier corroborated, and you come up with this straw man reply? I'm so disturbed by your mock outrage (not). Save your outrage for one of your former leaders and some of the things he bragged about.

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Re: Baby loons

Post  WHL on Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:46 am

I heard the fireworks, NH. Hard not to.
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Re: Baby loons

Post  News Hawk on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:39 am

obervantone wrote:Only visitors?  No residents are setting off fireworks?  Hmmm  Like to see the source on that as well.   clown
They're three houses over, and I heard them arrive (noisily) Friday evening. They're from New York, and could care less about neighbors or Loons. They could also be the source of a noisy DJ-hosted party last weekend. Someone came over by boat at 10:00—words were exchanged—and the party ended 20 minutes later.

The residue of fireworks results in a sprinkling of Nitrogen and Phosphorus over the lake. (Elements that contribute to the spreading of "Duck Itch" and the gradual slide into entropy of lakes.)

No


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Re: Baby loons

Post  WHL on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:45 am

We had a party going on here too. I don't know if they were the ones doing the fireworks or I heard your's.
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Re: Baby loons

Post  obervantone on Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:24 pm

Well Ed, I mean Amy,
Using the source that I posted AFTER your claim that the speed limits could be responsible for an increase in the loon population is STILL not attributing your source for such a bogus statement.  Plus there is still the PDF file that you apparently wrote since you STILL have not given it attribution.

Regarding my sarcastic quote that says...what does she know, she is only a wildlife biologist, it came in reply to yours and News Hawk's insistence the paddlers are not responsible for failed nests, that it is only on power boaters. In spite of the wildlife biologist's comment to the contrary.

News Hawk...call the police if you think your neighbors are doing something illegal so you residents can enjoy your peace....oh, wait...that's right, you are a resident of Florida and only a summer visitor here.

Page 7...still waiting.

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Re: Baby loons

Post  WHL on Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:28 pm

it still doesn't work for me, NH. After I select a file, hit host it, three things come up. I hit the first one of those (?) and then upload and it does nothing. Can you help?
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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:15 pm

Oh yeah, I made up the whole Upper South Long Lake Minnesota piece (not). Nor am I Ed Chase (though from what people tell me I would be proud to be...he held you guys accountable).

Amy B wrote:
So give us your side of the Erica Hazzard story.

Still waiting, page 7.
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Re: Baby loons

Post  obervantone on Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:29 pm

I have no story to tell about Erica.   Don't know her and never met her.

Now Eddie...how about the source for that statement that the speed limit has played a role in the loon population.

Regarding your claim that you did not make up the PDF file, where is the attribution? Are you in the habit of stealing other people's work and passing it off as your own without attribution? That would speak volumes to your character and admiration for El Chase....Eddie.

Still waiting, page 7.

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Re: Baby loons

Post  News Hawk on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:17 pm

WHL wrote:it still doesn't work for me, NH.  After I select a file, hit host it, three things come up.  I hit the first one of those (?) and then upload and it does nothing.  Can you help?
Right-click on the picture, select "Properties", highlight, then copy the address. (begins with http).

Did you hit "Browse" and "paste" your own image?

You can find a picture on the Web, select "Properties", highlight, then copy the address. (begins with http). and hit the "url" circle to host it—as well.


.

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Re: Baby loons

Post  Amy B on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:33 am

Oh yeah, I made up the story about Upper South Long Lake in Minnesota...right Bobby. But here's another article citing that POWER BOATS ARE THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF LOON CHICK MORTALITY. Look familiar? http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/12601843-95/loon-chicks-hatching-on-lakes-boaters-cautioned

BUT, if your own article isn't good enough for you, here is the other source:    http://www.usllia.org  
Just go to "helpful links". Now, with your straw man arguments you have for several pages suggested I made this up when a simple google search would have brought it up immediately. Either you are not too bright or this was the only way for you to keep the argument running. Hmmm

Amy B wrote:

As far as:

obervantone wrote:
Your damned right I'm pissed.  You son a bitch - self righteous jackass!   LEAVE THE LOONS ALONE!

  This language is often considered the hallmark of someone with a weak argument and a marginal intellect. We occasionally encounter this behavior at work where said inherently angry person has difficulties getting along with co-workers (and occasionally gets fired) and seems more likely to be involved in domestic difficulties.

Which of these apply to you Bob?
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Re: Baby loons

Post  WHL on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:15 am

I selected a pic from my pics and got three lines to come up, I picked the first one then upload and nothing happened.
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Re: Baby loons

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