Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:58 am

Red_Hill:

 
News Hawk wrote:

       obervantone wrote:You've all heard the phrase "penny wise and pound foolish"  This is a perfect example.


   Even a twenty-minute NHMP response is too late on the water.  Be ready to rescue—like my family (and I) did last season.

       .

It is a big lake. Absent 5-6 boats running on Winni alone, 20 minutes would be quick. If it were medical, the local FD will likely be longer.


WHL:
Well, you have to weigh the expense against the convenience and I am willing to sacrifice to save a little money. Just commenting to the above post by red.
OO wrote:
So in my question regarding an emergency response, if you factor in the switchboard issues, it could be the better part of an hour before a Marine Patrol boat on Paugus Bay could get the call and arrive on scene in Moultonboro. That is short sighted especially when dealing with an emergency. Someone will eventually be critically hurt or worse because of the current set up.


Exactly my point.  WHL stated (paraphrasing) that she likes it better now, few MP Patrol boats out on the water at a cost savings to the taxpayer.  However unless there are multiple patrol boats, each having a sector of the lake to patrol/be stationed, because of it's size as RH points out, the response time during an emergency will ultimately lead to serous injury or worse.  

Penny Wise and Pound Foolish.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:25 pm

red_hill wrote:Unfortunately the NHMP took a budget hit. We all want services but not all pay for them or want to

Less Clam Cops is a bad thing? Razz
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:28 pm

WHL wrote:I don't miss a heavier presence.  When they patrolled more, boats passed us as we were going slow, 25 feet away from us,  right in front of MP and they didn't get stopped.  So I think we are doing just fine as we are.  If someone needs them, we can always call them.  

cheers
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:31 pm

Good Grief News hawk, I've "known" you over ten years now, and you're still kvetching about people enjoying themselves on the lake?

Give it a rest and have a beer for chrissakes. Wink
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:38 pm

lol! lol!
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:40 pm

WHL wrote:lol! lol!

I remember some of our epic battles over a lake speed limit, back in the WOL days.

Cool
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  News Hawk on Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:11 pm

Anti Federalist wrote:Good Grief News hawk, I've "known" you over ten years now, and you're still kvetching about people enjoying themselves on the lake?

Give it a rest and have a beer for chrissakes. Wink

It's not difficult to get in harm's way. It's especially bad on weekends, when many residents postpone their boating days to weekdays. (I quit boating weekends at 11AM, when loud, reckless, and inconsiderate boaters arrive from Massachusetts, and start to swarm the lake).  

BTW, you didn't enter an opinion on "thought-crimes" here:

http://wolfgil.forumotion.com/t2788p150-this-reflects-poorly-on-wolfeboro

scratch


.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:25 pm

News Hawk wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:Good Grief News hawk, I've "known" you over ten years now, and you're still kvetching about people enjoying themselves on the lake?

Give it a rest and have a beer for chrissakes. Wink

It's not difficult to get in harm's way. It's especially bad on weekends, when many residents postpone their boating days to weekdays. (I quit boating weekends at 11AM, when loud, reckless, and inconsiderate boaters arrive from Massachusetts, and start to swarm the lake).  

BTW, you didn't enter an opinion on "thought-crimes" here:

http://wolfgil.forumotion.com/t2788p150-this-reflects-poorly-on-wolfeboro

scratch


.

Meh, Massholes on the water, Massholes on the road...blame the Boston and Maine. Very Happy

I checked into that thread when it happened, I didn't know it had resurrected.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:17 am

Anti Federalist wrote:
WHL wrote:lol! lol!

I remember some of our epic battles over a lake speed limit, back in the WOL days.

Cool

Oh yes, those were quite something weren't they? They still go on though sometimes it is the underlying subject when other laws are being discussed.

I almost forgot about "in harm's way" did you, Anti?
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:02 pm

News Hawk wrote:
It's not difficult to get in harm's way. It's especially bad on weekends,
It is bullshit like this...equating boating on lake winnipesaukee to a war zone...that is causing serious economic damage to the tourist industry on the lake.  
WinnFABS and supporters railing about Winni being the most dangerous place on earth have done more to damage the reputation of the lake in the minds of money spending tourists than anything else all the while ignoring Coast Guard and Marine Patrol statistics showing it was and continues to be one of the safest places in the country to boat...A means to an end...damned the consequences.

This from a Floridian...
(I quit boating weekends at 11AM, when loud, reckless, and inconsiderate boaters arrive from Massachusetts, and start to swarm the lake).  
How are things in Florida?
Williams was one of 67 people killed on Florida’s waterways in 2011, the most recent year for which data is available, according to an analysis by the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and NBC 6.
The highest boating fatality rate in the country!  742 boating accidents  431 injuries  67 deaths...If I were you I'd focus on your home state and leave NH to NH residents.
In 2011, the most recent year for which state data is available, 67 people were killed in boating accidents in Florida, a 24 percent increase since 2008,  Boating injuries also increased 12 percent during that time period, with 431 in 2011,  
In NH for 2011...2 people were killed in 36 accidents statewide....a far cry from the 67 killed in 742 accidents in Florida....yeah, keep lecturing us!

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/After-Increase-in-Boater-Deaths-in-Florida-A-Look-At-Boating-Regulations-204924341.html
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/workflow_staging/Publications/557.PDF

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:23 pm

WHL wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:
WHL wrote:lol! lol!

I remember some of our epic battles over a lake speed limit, back in the WOL days.

Cool

Oh yes, those were quite something weren't they?  They still go on though sometimes it is the underlying subject when other laws are being discussed.  

I almost forgot about "in harm's way" did you, Anti?

Not all, Harm and I remained...cordial...to each other in spite of vigorous disagreement over the growing size and power of the state under GWB and the "War on Terrah".

I TOLD him he would hate the Leviathan state when a Hillary or Obama got a hold of it. Cool
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:29 pm

obervantone wrote:WinnFABS and supporters railing about Winni being the most dangerous place on earth have done more to damage the reputation of the lake in the minds of money spending tourists than anything else all the while ignoring Coast Guard and Marine Patrol statistics showing it was and continues to be one of the safest places in the country to boat...A means to an end...damned the consequences.

Yes, this.

The highest boating fatality rate in the country!  742 boating accidents  431 injuries  67 deaths...If I were you I'd focus on your home state and leave NH to NH residents.

To be fair, Florida has many, many, times the number of boats and a boating season that lasts all year long.

In NH for 2011...2 people were killed in 36 accidents statewide

The important thing to take away from all these statistics is that, on the whole, given the number of boats and the time people spend in them, and all the variables that go with operating boats, recreational boating is a very safe activity.

Therefore it should not be further restricted due to the complaining and kvetching of a few malcontents and safety nazis.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:38 pm

Anti wrote:
To be fair, Florida has many, many, times the number of boats and a boating season that lasts all year long.
True, but even when you take that into consideration and extrapolate the numbers (something I will leave to others) NH and Winni are still by far the safer place to boat.  My issue is and has always been that the WinnFABS/Supporters successfully painted Winni as this lawless place where if you put your foot into the water you'd be killed by a boater doing 100mph, with we know is total bullshit and that line of crap continues to be believed by tourist who are taking their money elsewhere.
recreational boating is a very safe activity.
I agree.

One other thought. The two "boating" deaths in NH in 2011. I seem to recall that they were actually not related to boating accidents, but people swimming off anchored boats or boats that were drifting that drowned while swimming. I'm not going to look that up to confirm, but I do seem to recall that fact. Anyone?

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:59 pm

obervantone wrote:True, but even when you take that into consideration and extrapolate the numbers (something I will leave to others) NH and Winni are still by far the safer place to boat.  My issue is and has always been that the WinnFABS/Supporters successfully painted Winni as this lawless place where if you put your foot into the water you'd be killed by a boater doing 100mph, with we know is total bullshit and that line of crap continues to be believed by tourist who are taking their money elsewhere.

Yeah, it would take quite a bit of number crunching to come up with a rate of injuries per boating hour or something like that.

With only two fatalities, I'd say you were right though, that the raw number and rate is much lower than Florida.

Obviously, the notion that Winni is some boating "Black Hole of Death" is ridiculous.

What is WinnFABS?

One other thought.  The two "boating" deaths in NH in 2011.  I seem to recall that they were actually not related to boating accidents, but people swimming off anchored boats or boats that were drifting that drowned while swimming.  I'm not going to look that up to confirm, but I do seem to recall that fact.  Anyone?

That is actually what causes most boating deaths, that and that deaths occur from drowning or falling overboard from vessels 16 feet long or less.

Getting run down or killed in a collision is relatively rare.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:07 pm

WinnFABS is the group that spearheaded the campaign declaring winni was unsafe because motorboats will all doing 100 mph and running down children at summer camps. In spite of their name, Winnipesaukee Family Alliance for Boating Safety and their corporate documents claiming to be a safety group, their sole purpose was to get arbitrary speed limits imposed on Winnipesaukee following the tragic death of someone they knew whose boat was struck by a drunk boater driving a Baja doing 28 mph. Instead of going after the bar where the guy had been drinking all day, they saw it as an opportunity to rid the lake of the style of boats they did not like. They were financed heavily by someone with an interest in that bar and were able to hiring a battalion of lobbyists to push their bill through in Concord.


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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:42 pm

obervantone wrote:WinnFABS is the group that spearheaded the campaign declaring winni was unsafe because motorboats will all doing 100 mph and running down children at summer camps.  In spite of their name, Winnipesaukee Family Alliance for Boating Safety and their corporate documents claiming to be a safety group, their sole purpose was to get arbitrary speed limits imposed on Winnipesaukee following the tragic death of someone they knew whose boat was struck by a drunk boater driving a Baja doing 28 mph.  Instead of going after the bar where the guy had been drinking all day, they saw it as an opportunity to rid the lake of the style of boats they did not like.   They were financed heavily by someone with an interest in that bar and were able to hiring a battalion of lobbyists to push their bill through in Concord.

Ah yes, that is what I was relating to WHL in the previous posts, I remember arguing and lobbying vehemently against that.

I didn't recall/recognize the FABS acronym.

Unfortunately that is where we are at in today's compliance society, if you can even suggest that something is "unsafe" is enough to get the ball rolling to ban it.

In fact, it's not a good day in AmeriKa unless something is getting banned/restricted/eliminated.



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"Outer Limits" Cheered by Mutually-Admiring Ocean Racers...

Post  News Hawk on Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:05 pm

You're aware that the owner and founder of "Outer Limits" died in an ocean-racer wreck today?
http://www.ozarksfirst.com/story/d/story/speedboat-operator-dies-after-lake-of-ozarks-crash/45466/XuZLS1LWp0eayoYbF_4O4w

scratch

(Annoying ads precede and follow the news brief.)  

___________________________________

obervantone wrote:
News Hawk wrote:
It's not difficult to get in harm's way. It's especially bad on weekends,
It is bullshit like this...equating boating on lake winnipesaukee to a war zone...that is causing serious economic damage to the tourist industry on the lake.  
IF there's NH economic damage, it can be traced to the CRA.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Amy B on Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:35 pm

obervantone wrote:
It is bullshit like this...equating boating on lake winnipesaukee to a war zone...that is causing serious economic damage to the tourist industry on the lake

Do you have any proof of a causal relationship of equating boating on the lake to a war zone and this "serious economic damage" ?


Last edited by Amy B on Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:55 am

I read that. That isn't the boat "Outerlimits" that is on this lake though right?
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  News Hawk on Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:42 pm

Early this morning, ONE NHMP boat took a ½-hour cruise around Winter Harbor. 'Course, there were hardly any boats around, so he took a taxpayer cruise using taxpayer fuel. Accomplishing nothing but streaming the US flag.

What a job!

Arrow


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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:00 pm

News Hawk wrote:
Early this morning, ONE NHMP boat took a ½-hour cruise around Winter Harbor. 'Course, there were hardly any boats around, so he took a taxpayer cruise using taxpayer fuel. Accomplishing nothing but streaming the US flag.

What a job!

...or, instead of being on patrol in Wolfeboro, the boat could be tied up at the dock in Glendale and the officer sitting in the lounge waiting for the call to Wolfeboro, then taking at least a half hour to respond to the call and arrive on scene.

Didn't you just post (on page 2 of this topic) that 20 minutes was too long of a response time?  
Even a twenty-minute NHMP response is too late on the water.

So which is it?, a 20 minute response time it too long, or patrolling the lake and being in position to respond is a waste?
Have you actually ever been in a boat?


Last edited by obervantone on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Put News Hawks's comments at the head of this post because it was on the previous page.)

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  red_hill on Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:24 pm

NH the Mass folks are coming, the Mass folks are coming... get under your bed!! Very Happy

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Amy B on Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:17 pm

Amy B wrote:
obervantone wrote:
It is bullshit like this...equating boating on lake winnipesaukee to a war zone...that is causing serious economic damage to the tourist industry on the lake

Do you have any proof of a causal relationship of equating boating on the lake to a war zone and this "serious economic damage" ?

Still waiting, 2nd page.
obervantone wrote:
It is bullshit like this...

I see we've reverted back to the native dialect.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:33 pm

Amy B wrote:Do you have any proof of a causal relationship of equating boating on the lake to a war zone and this "serious economic damage" ?

Still waiting, 2nd page.

I can't speak for others, but I know this:

I'll be damned if I'm going to spend $50,000 on a boat, and the thousands of supporting dollars that go with it, only to be harassed and boarded by clam cops every other mile.

If people keep agitating for more law enforcement to solve a problem that does not exist, that is exactly what will happen, if it has not already, and you will see a net decrease in tourist dollars spent on boating.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Amy B on Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:17 pm

Good point though many have argued that other aspects of the tourist industry might well prosper. We've heard from others on other forums how renters have complained of the boat noise or that "it is no more peaceful motoring/fishing/sailing on the lake than it would be having a picnic on the median strip of I-95". From my point of view it's great not having boats tearing by at 10 PM at 60 MPH, rattling cottage windows, waking up the kids, etc. Days are great too. Seldom do we have to stop conversations on the dock because some ear splitting boat goes by (we are seeing a lot more pontoon boats). And we rent out a cottage too and know how the renters feel.
  Tourist dollars come to the Lake's region in many many forms, not just from people with performance boats. And our state legislature, one of the most conservative in history at the time, in their wisdom saw the potential for a net loss in tourist dollars because of the Go Fast Be Loud problem.
People have always enacted rules and laws to protect the public domain. You can't play your stereo real loud all night if there are neighbors to be disturbed. You can't let Fido poop in the park. And nearly 80% of people polled on the subject felt we needed a SL on Winni. Ditto the state legislature vote.
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