Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:35 pm

Ear splitting, rattling windows? What lake do you live on?
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Amy B on Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:59 pm

The new and improved Lake Winnipesaukee of course. Were you here 10 years ago? Some of the above water exhausts that came through here were unbelievable. Renters complained. People on the ends of their docks would shake their heads in disgust. Not sure where you live but things have changed here.

P.S. I had and still have old original cottage windows Smile
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Anti Federalist on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:08 pm

Amy B wrote:People have always enacted rules and laws to protect the public domain. You can't play your stereo real loud all night if there are neighbors to be disturbed. You can't let Fido poop in the park. And nearly 80% of people polled on the subject felt we needed a SL on Winni. Ditto the state legislature vote.

Oh yeah, you won't get an argument from me on that.

People are almost always in favor passing some new law, rule, law, restriction, mandate, code or ordinance.

That satisfies a base urge that all human beings have, and smart rulers have tapped into, since the days of Nebuchadnezzar and the Roman Caesars.

It's one of three things that people want, that they place far greater worth over than freedom, liberty or even civility:

1 - To be Fed.

2 - To be Entertained.

3 - To Exercise Petty Power over their fellow man.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  News Hawk on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:34 pm

WHL wrote:I read that.  That isn't the boat "Outerlimits" that is on this lake though right?  
There were two "Outer Limits" on Winnipesaukee briefly: both were 51-footers. The owner-founder died in a shorter version.

Noise and inconsiderate behavior defines a quality of life that is undermining civilization. That's why realtors' business cards urge buyers with their second line:

"A Quiet Lake with No Fast Motorboats"

" />

Cool


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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:13 pm

Are you really comparing the marketing strategy of a real estate firm trying to sell property on Duncan Lake, a body of water of 83 acres measuring just over 2000 feet by 2000 feet with that of the 73 square mile Lake Winnipesaukee?
Most people looking for a place at the lake are not looking for a puddle, so they are marketing to people like you that love canoes and human powered boats.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:15 pm

Amy B wrote:The new and improved Lake Winnipesaukee of course. Were you here 10 years ago? Some of the above water exhausts that came through here were unbelievable. Renters complained. People on the ends of their docks would shake their heads in disgust. Not sure where you live but things have changed here.

P.S. I had and still have old original cottage windows Smile

Of course I was here ten years ago. Some people like the sound of a loud boat. Granted if every single boat was loud it might not be so nice, but what is wrong with a few? At any rate, it isn't allowed so it isn't an issue. And did the people sitting on your dock run when a boat went by fast too -for fear they would get run into? I can just see them all jumping up from their chairs and running. Laughing

Maybe you need some new windows.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Amy B on Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:52 pm

They didn't run. Like others along the shore they shook their heads or their fists. But I agree with your point about what's wrong with a few. And I like the number of few now far more than the (many) few of years past.  cheers And my husband is rather attached to the old vintage windows.


Last edited by Amy B on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:19 pm

Amy B wrote:They didn't run. Like others along the shore they shook their heads or their fists. But I agree with your point about what's wrong with a few. And I like the number of few now far more than the many few of years past.  cheers And my husband is rather attached to the old vintage windows.


The only time a loud boat ever bothered me was many years ago there was one in our neighborhood and every Sat. night they apparently went out and didn't return until 2 in the morning. If they had just come in and docked it would have been fine. But they always came in very slow so you heard them for about 45 minutes. Then he docked and shut it off turned it back on again and shut it off again without fail. Every single Sat night. If they woke you up and they docked quickly it would have been fine but they didn't. Now that incident got this whole neighborhood shaking their fists! Someone finally called MP -I don't know what was said but we did see MP go talk to them.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  News Hawk on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:15 pm

obervantone wrote:Are you really comparing the marketing strategy of a real estate firm trying to sell property on Duncan Lake, a body of water of 83 acres measuring just over 2000 feet by 2000 feet with that of the 73 square mile Lake Winnipesaukee?  
Most people looking for a place at the lake are not looking for a puddle, so they are marketing to people like you that love canoes and human powered boats.  
I have seven boats, including a powerboat: four are sailcraft—two are canoes.  

If you look at a map of Lake Winnipesaukee, you'll see many, many coves, inlets, harbors and bays that would add up to many, many "puddles". Some residents observe that it is only on weekends that ocean-racers endanger others and they suppress their urges to do indelicate things.

I can also point to many residents who regard speeding and noisy scofflaws as inconsiderate lunkheads.

Evil or Very Mad

.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:48 pm

News Hawk:
I have seven boats, including a powerboat: four are sailcraft—two are canoes.  

If you look at a map of Lake Winnipesaukee, you'll see many, many coves, inlets, harbors and bays that would add up to many, many "puddles". Some residents observe that it is only on weekends that ocean-racers endanger others and they suppress their urges to do indelicate things.

I can also point to many residents who regard speeding and noisy scofflaws as inconsiderate lunkheads.
Sleep

WHL:
The only time a loud boat ever bothered me was many years ago there was one in our neighborhood and every Sat. night they apparently went out and didn't return until 2 in the morning. If they had just come in and docked it would have been fine. But they always came in very slow so you heard them for about 45 minutes. Then he docked and shut it off turned it back on again and shut it off again without fail. Every single Sat night. If they woke you up and they docked quickly it would have been fine but they didn't. Now that incident got this whole neighborhood shaking their fists! Someone finally called MP -I don't know what was said but we did see MP go talk to them.
That is why the change to the law that prohibited a switchable exhaust was proposed and passed.  Now that type of boat can engage the quiet mode of the switchable exhaust to prevent that type of noise when coming back to the dock late at night.  Until that law was changed it was illegal for your neighbor to do anything to quiet his boat.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  News Hawk on Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:31 am

obervantone wrote:That is why the change to the law that prohibited a switchable exhaust was proposed and passed.  Now that type of boat can engage the quiet mode of the switchable exhaust to prevent that type of noise when coming back to the dock late at night.  Until that law was changed it was illegal for your neighbor to do anything to quiet his boat.
That law should be changed (back). It's still a "cut-out"—illegal on the road.

Many I/O boats can't be legal at high speeds or with certain trim conditions. PWCs are quiet at an idle, where the new law now measures noise. When operated properly, newer PWCs are quiet "at speed"; however most are wrongly operated.

No


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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:03 am

obervantone wrote:
News Hawk:
I have seven boats, including a powerboat: four are sailcraft—two are canoes.  

If you look at a map of Lake Winnipesaukee, you'll see many, many coves, inlets, harbors and bays that would add up to many, many "puddles". Some residents observe that it is only on weekends that ocean-racers endanger others and they suppress their urges to do indelicate things.

I can also point to many residents who regard speeding and noisy scofflaws as inconsiderate lunkheads.
Sleep

WHL:
The only time a loud boat ever bothered me was many years ago there was one in our neighborhood and every Sat. night they apparently went out and didn't return until 2 in the morning. If they had just come in and docked it would have been fine. But they always came in very slow so you heard them for about 45 minutes. Then he docked and shut it off turned it back on again and shut it off again without fail. Every single Sat night. If they woke you up and they docked quickly it would have been fine but they didn't. Now that incident got this whole neighborhood shaking their fists! Someone finally called MP -I don't know what was said but we did see MP go talk to them.
That is why the change to the law that prohibited a switchable exhaust was proposed and passed.  Now that type of boat can engage the quiet mode of the switchable exhaust to prevent that type of noise when coming back to the dock late at night.  Until that law was changed it was illegal for your neighbor to do anything to quiet his boat.

Well you are right, I think the switchable exhausts are great for cases like this but they still have to be legal. I forgot, is it 82 or 84 dec.?
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:47 am

WHL, it depends upon the year of the boat.  The legal decibel limit ranges from 82 to 90.  That has not changed.  The only change is that an owner can now add a switchable exhaust to make the vessel quieter.

Here is a link to the decibel level law:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xxii/270/270-37.htm

Here is a link to the law regarding switchable exhausts
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xxii/270/270-25.htm


Last edited by obervantone on Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added link to RSA 270:25)

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:36 pm

Ok, thanks. I couldn't remember. So the way this state tests them (or did) out at Timber Island, it is 82 for a boat newer than 1990.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:04 pm

I'm not sure about that, I've never had a boat that would come close to the noise decibel limit. I think that they test them at idle on the docks, then 50 feet away from the boat at idle and the way I read it, it is up to the discretion of the tester if he/she wants to test the boat underway off Timber Island, but as I said I have not owned a boat that falls into that category so that would be a NHMP question.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:19 pm

I don't know what they do now but they did "invite" you to go out to Timber Island. The owner drove the boat and an officer rode along with them. The patrol boat was moored off Timber with his decibel tester. You make a couple of swings by as I recall at different speeds. I know this because we were "invited" to go there. It was always on a Sunday morning. When we bought our boat we bought it because I loved the way it looks, we didn't realize it was illegal for this lake. We had it for probably ten years before we finally got stopped. WE had to go out there several times before it finally passed, each time the marina tried to make it legal and finally succeeded. It costs us a lot to get it fixed. I guess if they had known in the first place what it needed, it might not have cost us so much. In the meantime we couldn't use the boat for the whole summer. I was in the boat with the officer the last time and we squeaked by. He told me he appreciated that we were so nice after so much frustration. I asked if people really gave him a hard time and he said you wouldn't believe it. But I don't know if they still do that now. It was an experience I can tell you that. It's kind of funny now but at the time it wasn't, it was very frustrating. I don't know how a boat that is illegal can be sold.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:44 pm

It is not legal for a dealer to sell you a boat that exceeds the decibel limit.
270:37 Decibel Limits on Noise. –
I. No person may operate, sell, or offer for sale any marine engine which is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the following noise levels measured under any testing procedure established pursuant to rules adopted under RSA 270:39:
So you could have had a case where the marina would have picked up the cost of the modifications if you had wanted to pursue it depending upon whether that part of the law was in effect at the time or not.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:58 pm

That was just what I wondered. Was that law in effect then? And we bought it in Maine because they didn't have one here.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:59 pm

Just as a follow up. Did you buy the boat in NH? I do not see anything in the wording of the law that differentiates between a dealer or private sale.
If the answer is yes then the question is has the statute of limitations expired for a civil suit?
If you are still within the statute of limitation you might be able to get your repair costs, legal fees and some damages covered.
If the seller was private the Marina might still be liable since they should have known and alerted you.
If you bought it out of state you are most likely out of luck.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:14 pm

Depending upon how much it cost you I might still look into trying to recoup a portion of what you spent in repairs since the Marina should have known the regulations and had the ability to test the noise level.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  News Hawk on Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:50 pm

obervantone wrote:Depending upon how much it cost you I might still look into trying to recoup a portion of what you spent in repairs since the Marina should have known the regulations and had the ability to test the noise level.
How would a marina in Maine know what state the untested boat was going to be cited for illegal noise?

scratch


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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  obervantone on Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:08 pm

News Hawk:
How would a marina in Maine know what state the untested boat was going to be cited for illegal noise?
I am admittedly drawing a conclusion here (something that you are very familiar with and do with regular frequency yourself) and that conclusion is that even if the boat were purchased in Maine, I am making the supposition that it was upgraded at a marina on the lake in NH, a marina that should have been aware of NH law, and not hauled back to Maine.  

If it were hauled back to Maine for the upgrade to make it compliant with NH law then there is obviously no recourse.

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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:53 am

We did buy the boat in Maine at a marina when Channel Marine didn't have what we wanted. We did have it repaired in NH. I don't remember what it costs to fix, but we had to keep doing it and doing it. It cost over 7,000. I wouldn't sue them. I don't like suing. I believe in personal responsibility. We bought the boat, we fixed it. As I said, I don't know if the law was in effect when we bought it. Do you know when the law went into effect? It is a 92 so it was a long time ago. I still love the boat and though I know it is old and I should get rid of it, I don't want to.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  Amy B on Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:23 am

Still waiting...3rd page...

obervantone wrote:  My issue is and has always been that the WinnFABS/Supporters successfully painted Winni as this lawless place where if you put your foot into the water you'd be killed by a boater doing 100mph, with we know is total bullshit and that line of crap continues to be believed by tourist (sic) who are taking their money elsewhere.

Winni had a "cowboy" reputation well before WinnFABS came along.

Do you think a fatal accident involving a president of a boating club which opposed speed limits on the lake might have also contributed to this reputation? This made headlines on a national scale. How about the immature bragging of another president regarding his boozing and law breaking? Let's give credit where credit is due.
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Re: Not ONE—But TWO—NHMPs in Winter Harbor Today...

Post  WHL on Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:19 am

I actually think I was the first person to suggest that cowboy reputation. My insurance agent said it years ago and I posted it when all this speed limit stuff started. I then noticed it got picked up on. I wish I had never mentioned it.
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