This is why nothing is getting done for the American people.

These are the Doom and Gloom faces of the Republican party, smirking while President Obama was giving his SOTU speech.

I don't want government doing any damn thing.

Gridlock, please.

Thanks.

I agree. Gridlock is good. When they make more laws they all seem to make things worse. Now if they made laws to reverse some of the laws we already have, that would be good.

WHL wrote:I agree.  Gridlock is good.  When they make more laws they all seem to make things worse.  Now if they made laws to reverse some of the laws we already have, that would be good.

So you're saying that gridlock is not good?   

I am saying gridlock is good because the laws they make only make things worse. I said IF they could agree to get rid of about 2 million laws already existing, gridlock would not be good. But of course they will never get rid of any old laws, so gridlock IS good. I imagine you still can't understand that.

Getting rid of legislation requires new legislation. Gridlock means nothing gets done. You can't have it both ways. What you're really saying is you want them to get rid of the laws that you don't like, but that's not how it works!

WHL wrote:I am saying gridlock is good because the laws they make only make things worse. I said IF they could agree to get rid of about 2 million laws already existing, gridlock would not be good.  But of course they will never get rid of any old laws, so gridlock IS good.  I imagine you still can't understand that.

Give us some of the laws that you don't like and why you don't like them.

OMG, where would I start. It would take me months. Well, what comes to mind right away is rules for businesses regarding extra paperwork which is just nonsense. For instance, when you hire someone you have to have a written sheet with their pay and benefits. Business should not have to be a collection agency. I don't see why businesses should be responsible to be a collection agency, having to deduct things such as child support, alimony, IRS obligations from paychecks and send them in. I think safety committees for a lot of companies are a waste of time. It is a good idea, but accidents happen anyway. Truck driver rules and regulations are ridiculous. We are going to have a major shortage of truck drivers, you wait and see. The poor guys are regulated to death. These are just a few things that come to mind.

WHL wrote:I think safety committees for a lot of companies are a waste of time.  It is a good idea, but accidents happen anyway.  Truck driver rules and regulations are ridiculous.  We are going to have a major shortage of truck drivers, you wait and see.  The poor guys are regulated to death. 

I wonder how many applicants would show up if you advertised for a truck driver? I've had a CDL license for years and I doubt the regulations have gotten much worse since I drove for a living.

WHL wrote:OMG, where would I start.  It would take me months.  Well, what comes to mind right away is rules for businesses regarding extra paperwork which is just nonsense.  For instance, when you hire someone you have to have a written sheet with their pay and benefits.  Business should not have to be a collection agency.  I don't see why businesses should be responsible to be a collection agency, having to deduct things such as child support, alimony, IRS obligations from paychecks and send them in.  I think safety committees for a lot of companies are a waste of time.  It is a good idea, but accidents happen anyway.  Truck driver rules and regulations are ridiculous.  We are going to have a major shortage of truck drivers, you wait and see.  The poor guys are regulated to death.  These are just a few things that come to mind.  

What's so hard about all of those requirements?  A business needs to have documentation of it's employees. Those requirements are to protect you and the employee.  All business schools will teach you what is required and how to do it efficiently.

Deductions from a paycheck are simple also and there is no burden on a well run finance dept to do it.  A lot of businesses contract that out anyway. As far as alimony and child support, that doesn't happen very often and garnishment of a paycheck takes a lot for it to happen.  Do you really have that problem with some of your employees?

Safety committees if run correctly aren't a burden either.

Truck drivers need all the training and regulations imposed on them because of what is required of them to drive safely.  If you ever hired an unqualified truck driver your business would be subject to a lot of headaches.  Also I don't know why you worry about that...put an ad in the paper and if you pay them well you should be able to get one in no time.

That's why I don't usually bother to answer you.  All you want to do is argue. You asked me a question. I gave you a bit of an answer.  You didn't like it.  End of story.  Granted all these things are doable.  It is just that they take time and you really need a person on the payroll just to satisfy the government regulations.  It makes it hard for small businesses is all I am saying and will mark the end of small businesses if it continues.  Already,  small business startups have slowed down.

So next time you ask a question, please remember this is why I will just ignore you. I knew better, I knew you just asked so you could disagree, yet I fell into your trap yet again.

WHL wrote:That's why I don't usually bother to answer you.  All you want to do is argue. You asked me a question. I gave you a bit of an answer.  You didn't like it.  End of story.  Granted all these things are doable.  It is just that they take time and you really need a person on the payroll just to satisfy the government regulations.  It makes it hard for small businesses is all I am saying and will mark the end of small businesses if it continues.  Already,  small business startups have slowed down.

So next time you ask a question, please remember this is why I will just ignore you.  I knew better, I knew you just asked so you could disagree, yet I fell into your trap yet again.

I'm not arguing with you. If it's hard for you to run your business then I believe you. I'm just saying that all the things that you mentioned aren't that difficult to do.
Sorry it bothers you that much.

I am not saying it is hard to do some of these things. Although some are because first, they never inform you of new rules and regs, you just have to stumble over them and then you have to figure out how to implement them. The point is, it takes a lot of time and money and that is why people are not starting small businesses. THerefore no new jobs.

I'm not buying that argument. The regulations you've brought out are a speed bump in a business like yours. If people think they can make money in any type of business, they'll start one. The biggest obstacle to any small business owner is the big box store, but the big box store is all part of our capitalist society. In a country that practices capitalism the capitalist will commit suicide to get ahead!

I saw a very nice snowblower, MTD Yard Machine, in Home Depot for $649. The same machine may be $1,500 in a local power supply, so where do you think the customer is going to buy the snowblower? My current MTD machine is 15 years old and runs very well, so I know they're reliable.

The Republicans are barking up the wrong tree if they think they're going to get rid of regulations, but they are always barking up the wrong tree anyway.

News Buzzard wrote:I'm not buying that argument. The regulations you've brought out are a speed bump in a business like yours. If people think they can make money in any type of business, they'll start one. The biggest obstacle to any small business owner is the big box store, but the big box store is all part of our capitalist society. In a country that practices capitalism the capitalist will commit suicide to get ahead!

I saw a very nice snowblower, MTD Yard Machine, in Home Depot for $649. The same machine may be $1,500 in a local power supply, so where do you think the customer is going to buy the snowblower? My current MTD machine is 15 years old and runs very well, so I know they're reliable.

The Republicans are barking up the wrong tree if they think they're going to get rid of regulations, but they are always barking up the wrong tree anyway.

The MTD Yard Machine you saw at Home Depot is probably not the same unit you would find at your local power supply company. It might look the same, it might even have the same model number, but it is not the same.

For that matter neither is the Delta Fawcett, DeWalt tool or John Deere mower.

Home Depot and Lowes have the purchasing power to make the manufacturer cheapen the products they carry. More plastic parts, greater tolerances and cheaper manufacturing processes all are done to keep the costs down.

All this is a good thing because it lowers the cost to consumers and gives them a choice. I do like the Home Depot for certain products, but I wouldn’t by a John Deere from them.

You are exactly right, Outer. NB has no idea what he is talking about. Windows and doors at the big box stores aren't the same either. They have different screens and hardware. I know of quotes the bigger stores have given with a lower price but come to find out it doesn't include the extras, like screens and hardware. So then when you add that in the smaller stores are the same or less than the big boxes. They can be cheap on their loss leaders but after that you have to be very careful. People get fooled all the time. There may be some businesses that charge more, but I can tell you that a lot of smaller businesses are the same or less than bigger businesses once you compare apples to apples.

And I know you know about rules an regulations, Outer. They can drive you crazy, right? I just touched on a couple here that came to mind immediately. It would take me days to list every rule and regulation a business has to deal with.

I have heard on the news that business startups are down because it is not easy to start a business today

There is no difference in the same model equipment you buy at Home Depot and Lowes compared to buying them at a local dealer.

I have researched this and have even talked to the manufacturer of some equipment.

Here is an example that I dealt with when I compared John Deere tractors:

John Deere D110 42 in. 19 HP Hydrostatic Gas Front-Engine Riding Mower a Home Depot:  $1,699.00  http://www.homedepot.com/p/John-Deere-D110-42-in-19-HP-Hydrostatic-Gas-Front-Engine-Riding-Mower-BG20708/204780471

John Deere D110 42 in. 19 HP Hydrostatic Gas Front-Engine Riding Mower at John Deere website: $1,699.00  http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US/products/equipment/riding_mowers/lawn_tractors/100_series/d110/d110.page?

They are the exact same thing...The John Deere website says that Home Depot is a dealer for them.  When I called them they said there is no difference if you buy the same model.  They said that all dealers can get you the same tractor at the same price if they order it for you.  However because they don't carry it like Home Depot does, there might be a higher charge.

If you buy anything with the same model number then they are the exact same thing.  Box stores will have stuff made especially for them and they will carry a different model number.  It is up to the consumer to check that out before they buy it.

WHL wrote:You are exactly right, Outer. NB has no idea what he is talking about.  Windows and doors at the big box stores aren't the same either.  They have different screens and hardware.  I know of quotes the bigger stores have given with a lower price but come to find out it doesn't include the extras, like screens and hardware.  So then when you add that in the smaller stores are the same or less than the big boxes.  They can be cheap on their loss leaders but after that you have to be very careful.  People get fooled all the time. There may be some businesses that charge more, but I can tell you that a lot of smaller businesses are the same or less than bigger businesses once you compare apples to apples.

And I know you know about rules an regulations, Outer.  They can drive you crazy, right?  I just touched on a couple here that came to mind immediately.  It would take me days to list every rule and regulation a business has to deal with.

I have heard on the news that business startups are down because it is not easy to start a business today

Please give me some make and model numbers of windows that you are talking about and I will do some research on them...or because you have already done that, you can post that information for us. I have put many windows in and if I order the same make and model at any store, I will get the same thing. Some stores won't carry the exact same make and model and it is up to the consumer to check that out.

That's funny, because my current MTD, Yard Machine is 15 years old! Not bad for inferior quality! I had Lowes make me new countertops and I installed them myself, and I bought a new sink and faucet from them and installed them as well. I bought my new generator from Home Depot and it works great! I ran my house for 5 hours when that tree went down on Filter Bed Rd. It's all good stuff that looks and works like new! Friends of mine used Lowes for most of their interior hardware and decorations and it's all beautiful stuff. I think that big box-inferior quality theory went out the window a long time ago!

Despite WHL's constant complaints about a terrible economy we have seen 2 Tractor Supply stores go up in Ossipee and Rochester, a Lowes in Rochester, a Hannafords in Alton, and now a new shopping center is going in on the east side of Wal Mart in Rochester. All of these stores went up in the last 10 years despite a consistent population and recession, and I know I have missed many smaller businesses that have gone up in the Lakes Region. All of the restaurants around the lake seem to be doing very well and we have 4 banks in Wolfeboro!

By the way, I had my roof done a couple of years ago (local contractor) and the materials came from Winnipesaukee Lumber. That is not the only place I have spent my money locally. I did my own roof on Long Island almost 30 years ago and it cost me $570. This one cost me 8 grand!

So how bad is the economy really doing?

Well I guess we can’t agree on anything now can we?
 
I didn't mean to insult you for purchasing products at Lowes and I am glad you are happy with your purchases but it doesn’t change the fact that the products they carry are NOT the same and that is why there can be such a price disparity on some products .  I am not saying Lowes/Home Depot products are not good, they are just not as good.   For example:  Delta faucets found at Home Depot and Lowes weigh half as much as the same faucet at plumbing supply shop.   Why is that?   The stoppers are made of plastic as well as many of the internal components sometimes even the spout.    
 
Getting back to the topic of this thread…
 
The biggest reasons we are having a stagnant jobless recovery are regulations, technology, globalization, cost of labor and an unclear economic environment.

The government cannot address all of these barriers but the can help with some to create a better environment for business to create jobs.
Many of the laws passed (by both sides) do not help and in fact, they are retarding growth.
 
Obamacare, corporate taxes and an unclear economic environment should be the focus of our leaders if they are sincere in fixing the problem.
 
While Achigan laid all of the blame on two Republican law-makers, that is disingenuous at best.
 
Things are not getting done in this country because we are a divided nation.  
 
This division really comes down to one thing and one thing only…GREED.  The left defines GREED as corporations making obscene profits or the wealthy making more money than they need. The right defines greed as those with less demanding the fruits of someone else’s labor and politicians that are willing to pass laws to make the redistribution of wealth possible.
 
It comes down to the greed of people who want more than anyone is willing to pay them for anything they do or offer. It is the greed of people who envy what others have and have such weak morality that they will endorse anyone that is willing to help them obtain it. It is the greed of the politicians that are willing to make laws and force wealth redistribution in exchange for power.
 
When you peel away all the layers of rationalization, it always comes down to the same thing.
 
Whether it's about minimum wage, Obamacare, raising taxes on the wealthy, capping CEO pay, eliminating taxes on the middle class or increasing entitlements, it inevitably boils down to taking from those with more and giving to those with less. That much is easy enough to understand and really not possible to dispute.
 
It seems the justification always boils down to the same thing. It's not that the poor deserve more. It's that the rich deserve to be stripped of their wealth. Pare all the arguments down to their core and that's what you end up with; demonization of the wealthy and the corporations and industry to justify taking from them. That prevents the discussion from focusing on why others deserve it because there is no justification in that. Those that deserve more can get more. If you bring more to the table than the next guy, you'll be able to get more. If you're doing more than you did last year, you can successfully argue that you deserve more. But you can't argue that you deserve more just because someone else deserves less and that's where liberals always end up taking it.
 
Am I saying we shouldn’t help the poor and less fortunate, of course not. Charity (and that is what it is) should not be an entitlement and a tool for political power.

Outerlimits wrote:Well I guess we can’t agree on anything now can we?

I didn't mean to insult you for purchasing products at Lowes and I am glad you are happy with your purchases but it doesn’t change the fact that the products they carry are NOT the same and that is why there can be such a price disparity on some products .  I am not saying Lowes/Home Depot products are not good, they are just not as good.   For example:  Delta faucets found at Home Depot and Lowes weigh half as much as the same faucet at plumbing supply shop.   Why is that?   The stoppers are made of plastic as well as many of the internal components sometimes even the spout.    

They aren't the same because they aren't the same model number. Your examples don't mean a thing unless you tell us the make and model number.

I know there are different model numbers and they are each priced differently. If I go to Home Depot and ask for the same make and model number that I saw at a plumbing supply shop, the chances are they don't carry it.

You make it sound like Box Stores are selling the same make and model as a plumbing supply store and that product is of lower quality. That is just not true.

Outerlimits wrote:
 
The biggest reasons we are having a stagnant jobless recovery are regulations, technology, globalization, cost of labor and an unclear economic environment.

I agree with those reasons and put globalization as number one.  Here is a video that is somewhat long but really explains why globalization is hurting job recovery in the United States:

I firmly believe that this scenario where Home Depot products are inferior in quality is mythology created by the independent suppliers who were burned by the big box stores. I can't imagine Delta, Kohler, Moen and other fine companies risking their reputation that way.

The reason why nothing is getting done is Republican intransigence and nothing more. However, the gridlock is very slowly thawing as the Tea Party fad is slowly fading. We've seen agreement by both sides on the budget for the first time in years and it now looks like we'll have a clean debt ceiling hike. More and more Republicans, especially on the state level, are finally caving in to the idea that Obamacare is here to stay, and that will only get better as more and more states realize that they'll have to accept the expansion of Medicaid. These people vote! (unless the right can suppress them) We're starting to see some movement toward an agreement on immigration reform, as the Senate has already passed a bipartisan bill and the House is talking about it. This is not rocket science, folks, Romney got his butt kicked by the minorities and they're here to stay!

Thank you, Outer. At least you and I know the truth.

News Buzzard wrote:I firmly believe that this scenario where Home Depot products are inferior in quality is mythology created by the independent suppliers who were burned by the big box stores. I can't imagine Delta, Kohler, Moen and other fine companies risking their reputation that way.

 
 
Straight from the mouth of Moen...[www.moen.com]
 
"Do all Moen products consist of one standard of quality regardless of whether the distributor is a retail or wholesale supplier?
 
Moen's production line does not differentiate between wholesale and retail models. There is only one grade of brass, only one grade of cartridge and only one grade of warranty coverage - the best. While the numbering system for Moen's wholesale distributors and retail distributors may vary and subtle installation and trim differences may exist (these may include, but are not limited too, packaging, threaded or slip-fit style tub spouts and metallic or non-metallic drain assemblies). The quality and limited lifetime warranty against leaks, drips, materials, and workmanship remain the same for all of our products."
 
That is a that is a significant difference.  ALSO, having a plastic valve is very different than having a ceramic one.
 
Like I said...
 
“it might even have the same model number” 
 
Having both products in my hands at the same time I can tell you that you there was a significant difference.  
 
Delta
 
http://www.deltafaucet.com/kitchen/details/21996lf-ob.html#/?tab=product-support
 
Fergusen:
 
http://shop.ferguson.com/product/Delta-Faucet-D21996LF-Oil-Rubbed-Bronze-633574?Ns=AvailabilitySort%7C0%7C%7CPrimary_Finish%7C1%7C%7CSort_Order%7C1&N=103+219+55+135+3000357
 
Home Depot
 
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-Traditional-2-Handle-Kitchen-Faucet-in-Oil-Rubbed-Bronze-DISCONTINUED-21996LF-OB/202985560?keyword=21996LFOB#specifications