This could get interesting

View previous topic View next topic Go down

This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:22 am

I don't have a subscription to the Laconia Citizen so I can not access the entire article...if one of you has a subscription it would be great if you could share the story.  I can't wait to hear the arguments of this case!

I seem to remember that the woman, a veterinarian, was charged criminally by the Marine Patrol for negligent boating or something like that for turning in the "wrong" direction while trying to avoid a collision. She was acquitted of the charges.  She was charged even though the other boater was drunk or I whoudl say allegedly drunk since I don't know the outcome of the case against Mr. Myers.  

As a little background, NH does NOT have, as part of its boating laws, the navigation rule called "The General Prudential Rule" (Rule 2) which allows boat operators to violate the law, when all else fails, in order to avoid a collision.  
This could be a very interesting case!

This is all I can access of the article for free:

http://thecitizen.villagesoup.com/p/boater-acquitted-by-court-now-faces-civil-suit/1248359
Boater acquitted by court now faces civil suit
By BEA LEWIS | Oct 01, 2014

LACONIA — A Bay State man who was initially charged with boating while intoxicated following a collision on Lake Winnipesaukee has filed a civil suit against against the driver of the other boat, claiming that she was negligent.

Attorney Michael Bowser Jr., of Nashua, alleges in a suit filed on behalf of Barry Myers of Dracut, Mass., that Brenda Stowe, of Gilford, turned her boat into the path of Myer's vessel, causing a collision on June 21, 2013.

According to the writ filed in Belknap County .

Here is the background story following the accident from the LDS:


Both boaters involved in summer crash facing charges; first trial set for Monday
   Published Date Wednesday, 01 January 2014 11:54

LACONIA — The pilots of both boats that collided near Governor's Island on the night of June 21, leaving some of the occupants with serious injuries, are scheduled to stand trial in 2014.

Barry Myers, 50, of Dracut, Mass is charged with one count of boating while under the influence of alcohol. His trial is scheduled for Monday morning. Myers is also charged with a violation for allegedly not having on the proper lights.

Dr. Brenda Stowe, 51, of Gilford is charged with a violation of the rules of operating a vessel for failing to keep to the right when approaching another vessel.

The crash occurred about 10:25 p.m. about 300 yards off the shore of Lake Winnipesaukee between the Governor's Island bridge and Saunders Bay. Of the five total occupants on both boats, four — two from each boat — were taken to the hospital for a variety of injuries ranging from broken bones to internal injuries.

At the time Marine Patrol reported both boats were heavily damaged and towed from the scene.

According to documents obtained from the 4th Circuit Court, Laconia Division, Myers will present an expert witness, Dr. William A. Stuart, who is expected to testify that one of the people on Myers' boat who was taken to Lakes Region General Hospital, and whose blood alcohol level was tested there, had testified at an administrative hearing that his blood alcohol content was well below the legal boating limit of 0.08 percent and that he had consumed more alcohol prior to the accident than had Myers.

Stowe has filed for an affirmative defense. She says she was headed toward her home on Dockham Shore Road and had begun turning left from the open water. She said she saw a single white light heading toward her at a high rate of speed but that she didn't see any bow lights.

She said when she realized the driver of the boat (Myers) didn't see her, she made a split second decision to make a hard left and increase her speed to try to avoid the collision.

Rather that hit head on, Myers boat "T-boned" hers, said a Marine Patrol sergeant.

The state says that if she had stayed to the right, the collision may have been averted. Stowe said he was coming head on and keeping her course and trying to speed out of the way averted a head-on collision that could have produced even more serious injuries.

Stowe's trial is scheduled for early February.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  WHL on Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:51 am

Hmmm, interesting. I hadn't heard about that.
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

...From Dracut...

Post  News Hawk on Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:15 am

THIS "Barry Myers"? (4th from the bottom)

http://www.citizenobserver.com/cov6/app/alert.html?id=10887

drunken


.

_________________
..."The beauty of being a liberal is that history always begins this morning..."
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7959
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  WHL on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:23 pm

Question Question Question Question Question
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:35 pm

...From Dracut...

Post News Hawk Today at 10:15 am
THIS "Barry Myers"? (4th from the bottom)

http://www.citizenobserver.com/cov6/app/alert.html?id=10887
Don't know, could be but it is not an uncommon name.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  WHL on Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:56 pm

3 year difference in age too. I can see a year, but they usually aren't 3 years apart. But I guess it could be one in the same.
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  News Hawk on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:27 pm

Barry Myers, 50, of Dracut, Mass is charged with one count of boating while under the influence of alcohol.

The charge was drunk-driving. (Dracut, Massachusetts).

drunken

Not a big leap to drunk-boating.

drunken

I'd said it earlier: Before handing over a boating certificate, validate the driving record!

study


.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7959
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:34 pm

How does the Marine Patrol do that without creating an entire new bureaucracy to check the driving record of every person who takes the exam?  Additionally how do you mandate other states and NSBLA approved organizations do the same without creating a Federal bureaucracy which would certainly infringe on states rights.

No, what you do is make certain drunk boating is severely punished.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  News Hawk on Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:51 pm

obervantone wrote:How does the Marine Patrol do that without creating an entire new bureaucracy to check the driving record of every person who takes the exam?
I've worked in a bureaucracy—there are always employees (or interns) with time and access to a computer.

obervantone wrote:Additionally how do you mandate other states and NSBLA approved organizations do the same without creating a Federal bureaucracy which would certainly infringe on states rights.
Why would that be necessary? We're only discussing New Hampshire's drunk-boaters here. It's up to other states to make a reasonable test for drunks.

obervantone wrote:No, what you do is make certain drunk boating is severely punished.
How were you with "overnights in jail" for Erika?

Danny wasn't found guilty of drunk boating.

No

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7959
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:40 am

News Hawk
 
 obervantone wrote:How does the Marine Patrol do that without creating an entire new bureaucracy to check the driving record of every person who takes the exam?

I've worked in a bureaucracy—there are always employees (or interns) with time and access to a computer.
And what will be the additional cost for this bureaucracy?  According to the 2013 boating registration statistics there were 92,046 boats registered in NH.  Even if you figure only 1 operator per boat which is a low number, what agency has the manpower to review 92,046 driving records and again I ask, what would the cost of such a review be?

News Hawk
  obervantone wrote:Additionally how do you mandate other states and NSBLA approved organizations do the same without creating a Federal bureaucracy which would certainly infringe on states rights.

Why would that be necessary? We're only discussing New Hampshire's drunk-boaters here. It's up to other states to make a reasonable test for drunks.
Because New Hampshire has reciprocal agreements with all other states that have NSBLA approved tests as well as the U-S Coast Guard Auxiliary and the U-S Power Squadrons.  Since there is reciprocity any and all of those boaters can, and many do myself included, boat on the waters of NH.  How are you going to insure that these boaters do not have drunk driving records?  You would need some kind of Federal drivers licensing to even consider do that and it would involve much more manpower than is available now and be at enormous cost.

News Hawk
   
obervantone wrote:No, what you do is make certain drunk boating is severely punished.

How were you with "overnights in jail" for Erika?
Danny wasn't found guilty of drunk boating.

You have made my point.  Drunk boating needs to be severely punished in NH, not a slap on the wrist.  Investigators and the courts have to take the crime of drunk boating much more seriously than they have in decades past.   Strictly enforced drunk boating laws will not eliminate drunk boating just as those laws have not eliminated drunk driving.  But since the advent of MADD and their successful campaign to bring attention to the horrors that can and often do result in drunk driving, the laws have toughened, are enforced and the instances of drunk driving have dropped.  That will happen if NH gets serious about drinking and boating as well.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  WHL on Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:53 am

Well, they are matched enough that if you get a drunk boating charge, you lose your driver's license.
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  News Hawk on Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:55 am

obervantone wrote:
News Hawk
 
 obervantone wrote:How does the Marine Patrol do that without creating an entire new bureaucracy to check the driving record of every person who takes the exam?

I've worked in a bureaucracy—there are always employees (or interns) with time and access to a computer.
And what will be the additional cost for this bureaucracy?  According to the 2013 boating registration statistics there were 92,046 boats registered in NH.  Even if you figure only 1 operator per boat which is a low number, what agency has the manpower to review 92,046 driving records and again I ask, what would the cost of such a review be?

There won't be 92,046 new certificates every year.

News Hawk
  obervantone wrote:Additionally how do you mandate other states and NSBLA approved organizations do the same without creating a Federal bureaucracy which would certainly infringe on states rights.

Why would that be necessary? We're only discussing New Hampshire's drunk-boaters here. It's up to other states to make a reasonable test for drunks.

Because New Hampshire has reciprocal agreements with all other states that have NSBLA approved tests as well as the U-S Coast Guard Auxiliary and the U-S Power Squadrons.  Since there is reciprocity any and all of those boaters can, and many do myself included, boat on the waters of NH.  How are you going to insure that these boaters do not have drunk driving records?  You would need some kind of Federal drivers licensing to even consider do that and it would involve much more manpower than is available now and be at enormous cost.
While it'd be up to each individual state to check drunk-driving records, even where that stat is missing, the stigma of any BUIs in NH will shadow each BUI offense in newspapers.  States with reciprocity will learn—notably Massachusetts!

News Hawk
   
obervantone wrote:No, what you do is make certain drunk boating is severely punished.

How were you with "overnights in jail" for Erika?
Danny wasn't found guilty of drunk boating.

You have made my point.  Drunk boating needs to be severely punished in NH, not a slap on the wrist.   That will happen if NH gets serious about drinking and boating as well.

Sorry, but NH has frequent references to 4 and 5 DUI offenses in the courts. Even those convicted of DUI having their divers licenses suspended... Those offenders need to sit in jail—but they don't!

You'd think with cellphones everywhere, more citizens would alert DUIs to police. Lawyers give freely of tips to DUI offenders to skirt the laws. The roadways are not crowded enough in NH.  

No


.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7959
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:26 pm

 WHL Today at 7:53 am
Well, they are matched enough that if you get a drunk boating charge, you lose your driver's license.
Actually I would challenge that in court.  
For example; New Hampshire did not issue my drivers license and New Hampshire did not issue my boating certificate, so if I were ever in a position where either were challenged, I would probably use the argument that since New Hampshire did not issue either, then New Hampshire does not have the authority to suspend either.  
News Hawk
There won't be 92,046 new certificates every year
While that is true, it is also true that currently there are at minimum 92,046 certificates in circulation that are not checked against their drivers license for infractions, and that does not take into consideration out of state boaters that register boats in New Hampshire but got their certificates elsewhere.  Once those 92,046 are checked then I would say you have a point, but until then it is unreasonable and very very expensive to think anything like that will happen.
News Hawk
While it'd be up to each individual state to check drunk-driving records, even where that stat is missing, the stigma of any BUIs in NH will shadow each BUI offense in newspapers.  States with reciprocity will learn—notably Massachusetts!
I am not quite understanding what you are trying to say here....that bad press will embarrass drunks?  Not that I have ever seen.  One other point is that the newspaper industry is losing money and reporters left and right,   fewer reporters means fewer stories.  Just look at the example that I have used to start this thread....this story did not get extensive coverage in the Lakes Region and I can assure you it got zero coverage in the Merrimack Valley.
News Hawk
Sorry, but NH has frequent references to 4 and 5 DUI offenses in the courts. Even those convicted of DUI having their divers licenses suspended... Those offenders need to sit in jail—but they don't!
And again that is the point.  Unless courts, law enforcement and public perception changes, there will be drinking and boating and to my way of thinking that is unacceptable!

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  WHL on Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:05 pm

You could challenge it but I bet you would lose. If you are driving a car drunk in another state you don't get away with it just because you don't have a license in that state.
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:29 pm

WHL on Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:05 pm
You could challenge it but I bet you would lose. If you are driving a car drunk in another state you don't get away with it just because you don't have a license in that state.
That's true, but that's not what we're discussing.
If I were driving a car in NH and I were convicted of drunk driving NH could send me to jail, but NH can not revoke my drivers license, only Massachusetts can do that.
If I am convicted of drunk boating in New Hampshire they can send me to jail, but New Hampshire does not have the authority to revoke my drivers license since they did not issue it. They may or may not have a reciprocal deal with the DMV in Massachusetts, but New Hampshire itself can not revoke my drivers license.
Since boating safety certificates are voluntary, not mandatory in Massachusetts with very few exceptions (teenage PWC operators) I doubt that they would revoke a drivers license because of a boating infraction in New Hampshire.
And to take it a step further, boating certificates issues by the U-S Coast Guard Auxiliary and U-S Power Squadron are not "state issued" certificates,they are certificates issued by Federal organizations, so I would question the authority of a state to "revoke" them as well. A state could certainly take away boating privileges on state waters, but they can not revoke a certificates or a drivers license that was not issued by the state.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:56 pm

As a follow up.  New Hampshire can not suspend a divers license of an out of state driver, they can request it be suspended then it is up to the individual state to comply or not.  Here is the Mass Registry's take on that.  
Suspensions & Hearings: Out-of-State Suspensions and Revocations

Each state in the U.S. is required to notify a driver's home state through the National Driving Register if a driver has committed an offense which has caused the driver's right to operate to be suspended or revoked out-of-state. If Massachusetts receives notification that your right to operate was suspended or revoked by another state, the RMV will mail you a suspension notice, giving you 30 days to resolve the out-of-state issue.

If your Massachusetts license or right to operate has been suspended or revoked due to a suspension or revocation in another state, you must be reinstated in that state before any revocation in Massachusetts can be resolved. The pending suspension will become effective on the date specified in your suspension notice and will remain in effect until the out-of-state suspension has been cleared.

If your out-of-state suspension or revocation has been resolved, you must present either a Clearance Letter or a current driving record, not more than 30 days old, from the state of suspension to a full service RMV branch office. The pending suspension or revocation in Massachusetts must be removed manually by the RMV, even if the effective date has not been reached. If the Massachusetts suspension has taken effect, you will be required to pay a $100 reinstatement fee.

If your out-of-state offense is related to Operating Under the Influence of Alcohol or Drugs (including Breathalyzer Refusals & Failures) or Vehicular Homicide/Manslaughter, you must see a Hearings Officer and submit 1. A Certified Drivers History (not more than 30 days old) from the state in which the offense occurred 2. Court Abstracts providing disposition information.

Massachusetts state law requires the RMV to apply Massachusetts license suspension rules to any of these out-of-state violations. These offenses will be treated as if they occurred in the Commonwealth if the driver was licensed in Massachusetts at the time of the offense. The RMV will review your record and determine if it is similar to any existing laws in Massachusetts and apply any penalties that may be required
But the question still remains if this applies to non on the road offenses, like a boating offense especially since no boating safety certificate is required in Massachusetts in most cases.  I would absolutely challenge it.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  WHL on Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:18 pm

I believe people do lose their licenses in any state if they are charged with BWI but don't ask me why or how I heard or read that. Even if you don't need a safety certificate in Mass. I wouldn't think it is legal to drive a boat while intoxicated. You could challenge it, I just have a feeling you wouldn't win.
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:48 pm

The other issue is that NH law does not automatically call for the revocation of your drivers license if you are convicted of BWI. It calls for NH to report such a violation to the NH Dept of Motor Vehicles It could result in suspension of your NH boating certificate and right to boat on NH waterways for a set period of time but not automatic license revocation.. I have no issue with the state revoking an out of stater's privilege to boat in NH, but they can not suspend the boating certificate that they did not issue,,,meaning that while the suspension in NH is in effect the drunk can still boat in other states that require safety certificates.

My whole point is the courts have to take action....jail time, not suspension of boating privileges for drunk boaters...that will send a clear message.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  WHL on Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:06 pm

Well, it's something I don't need to worry about anyway because I never drink while I am driving a boat.  And rare is the time I have more than one drink.
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:27 pm

Back to my original question, does anyone have a subscription to the Citizen so we can read the rest for the article regarding the Myers lawsuit against Stowe?

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  News Hawk on Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:40 am

obervantone wrote:The other issue is that NH law does not automatically call for the revocation of your drivers license if you are convicted of BWI.  It calls for NH to report such a violation to the NH Dept of Motor Vehicles  It could result in suspension of your NH boating certificate and right to boat on NH waterways for a set period of time but not automatic license revocation..  I have no issue with the state revoking an out of stater's privilege to boat in NH, but they can not suspend the boating certificate that they did not issue,,,meaning that while the suspension in NH is in effect the drunk can still boat in other states that require safety certificates.

My whole point is the courts have to take action....jail time, not suspension of boating privileges for drunk boaters...that will send a clear message.
Too few fatalities have occurred in boating to wake up the voters.

_________________
..."The beauty of being a liberal is that history always begins this morning..."
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7959
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  obervantone on Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:15 am

News Hawk
Too few fatalities have occurred in boating to wake up the voters.
...and that is a good thing, but voter sentiment has nothing to do with judicial authority to sentence a drunk driver or boater to jail vs slapping them with a fine and suspending their boating privileges in NH, but allowing them to boat elsewhere.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: This could get interesting

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum