Senate Report On CIA Torture

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  red_hill on Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:56 am

News Hawk wrote:
WHL wrote:What is up with talking about this waterboarding  stuff again?  I think it is a diversion for something.
Thirteen years ago, nobody was outraged at ANY means to prevent another fatality from Islamist attacks on American citizens.

Those with family members as victims would not have asked for less.  



Evil or Very Mad


.


That is for sure.

Just as everyone conveniently forgot that RR put the Soviet Union out of business and with it, ended the cold war. Even some of us who had nuclear drills in school have conveniently forgotten.

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Buzzard on Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:59 am

red_hill wrote:
News Buzzard wrote:The most horrifying thing about that picture was the total incompetence of the Bush Administration to stop it, after repeated warnings. The torture produced nothing despite all of the lies by Dick Cheney!
You really are joking, right? Clinton had ample opportunities to take OBL out. Each time his response was to willy nilly lob a cruise missile into some cave. Bush had opportunities. Everyone underestimated ElShitheads ability to attack us here as they did. Everyone. Hindsight is 20/20 and then some.

I'm not joking, Red Hill. The 9/11 Commission report refutes what you just said. Bin Laden wasn't indicted for anything until 1998 and it was Obama who finally found and killed him. Bush got over 60 warnings about an imminent attack and made no attempt to secure the airports or cockpits.

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To be real clear

Post  red_hill on Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:14 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/31/bill-clinton-bin-laden_n_5638110.html
I would have said goodnight Kandahar...
Just hours before the September 11, 2001 attack on the United States, former President Bill Clinton allegedly said he "could have killed" Osama bin Laden, but decided against it due to the number of civilians who also would have been killed.

On Wednesday, Sky News host Paul Murray aired a previously unreleased audio recording of Clinton speaking to a group of Australian businessman on September 10, 2001. The former president of Australia's Liberal Party, Michael Kroger, was in attendance at the Melbourne event, and appeared on Murray's program to unveil the tape.

"Osama bin Laden -- he's a very smart guy, I've spent a lot of time thinking about him, and I nearly got him once," Clinton says in the tape, answering a question about terrorism. "I nearly got him. And I could have gotten, I could have killed him, but I would have to destroy a little town called Kandahar in Afghanistan and kill 300 innocent women and children. And then I would have been no better than him. And so I didn't do it."


Sorry, if it is to be us or them, it needs to be them.

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  obervantone on Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:29 pm

Exactly...Clinton/Obama are to blame for Bush's incompetence...everyone knows that!

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  red_hill on Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:40 pm

obervantone wrote:Exactly...Clinton/Obama are to blame for Bush's incompetence...everyone knows that!
I'm not blaming anyone for Clinton's, Bush's, or Obama's incompetence except for them and their teams. And again, hindsight is 20/20

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Buzzard on Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:21 pm

There were a great deal of logistical problems with that sighting in Afghanistan, including the time it would have taken to mount an attack, so I'm not buying any fault on Clinton's part. Bush was the president and his office got over 60 warnings that al Qaeda was planning an attack, so there is no doubt in my mind that Bush takes the blame for allowing 9/11 to happen. The botched invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq only furthered the debacle of the Bush Administration. Fully half of the $1.1 trillion in the budget bill they're about to pass is going to the Pentagon, so it appears that Eisenhower was right when he said that we were becoming a Military Industrial Complex! We will become a nation with a bloated military budget and senior citizens living on the side of what used to be Eisenhower's great interstate highway system. No

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  red_hill on Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:56 pm

News Buzzard wrote:There were a great deal of logistical problems with that sighting in Afghanistan, including the time it would have taken to mount an attack, so I'm not buying any fault on Clinton's part. Bush was the president and his office got over 60 warnings that al Qaeda was planning an attack, so there is no doubt in my mind that Bush takes the blame for allowing 9/11 to happen. The botched invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq only furthered the debacle of the Bush Administration. Fully half of the $1.1 trillion in the budget bill they're about to pass is going to the Pentagon, so it appears that Eisenhower was right when he said that we were becoming a Military Industrial Complex! We will become a nation with a bloated military budget and senior citizens living on the side of what used to be Eisenhower's great interstate highway system. No

So, you are not believing Bill Clinton either? You realize that Obama has been in office for 6 years now and could have ended anything he wanted within 2 years. There is a reason for that- every incoming President learns things that others do not, things that would scare the bejesus out of most people.

I know more about terrorism (and counter-terrorism) than most people, it is not something to be taken lightly nor is it easy to stop. Much of the Pentagon's money is black. They and the CIA are doing things that most people really do not want to know about.

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Hawk on Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:45 pm

obervantone wrote:Exactly...Clinton/Obama are to blame for Bush's incompetence...everyone knows that!

As soon as Bush learned that 19 Islamists were taking "lessons in commercial jet flight" (and knew Osama bin Laden), he should have emptied the World Trade Towers, emptied the Pentagon, and made sure that everyone got out of the Capitol building right away!

Rolling Eyes

But maybe I don't have the entire picture.

scratch


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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Buzzard on Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:55 pm

red_hill wrote:So, you are not believing Bill Clinton either?

Of course I believed Clinton, but the crucial bit of information you're leaving out is that the drones which picked up bin-Laden's convoy were not armed, and Clinton didn't want to launch missiles on that site with up to a six hour delay. This article was incorporated into the article you posted:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/14/hank-crumpton-cia-clinton-bin-laden_n_1514895.html

I don't believe in a government that is almost entirely military, and that's what Paul Ryan and the rest of the conservatives are selling. If they want a bloated military, then they should raise taxes to pay for it and leave the rest of the social programs alone.

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Pigeon on Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:28 pm

News Buzzard wrote:

I don't believe in a government that is almost entirely military, and that's what Paul Ryan and the rest of the conservatives are selling. If they want a bloated military, then they should raise taxes to pay for it and leave the rest of the social programs alone.

Absolutely, it's time to wean-off the military contractors from the "government teet"...get the hell out of other countries business and we won't need an army larger than any other in the world!!

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  Outerlimits on Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:45 pm

News Buzzard wrote:The most horrifying thing about that picture was the total incompetence of the Bush Administration to stop it, after repeated warnings. The torture produced nothing despite all of the lies by Dick Cheney!


Holding bush responsible for not preventing 9/11 is a ridiculous premise and an obvious exercise in disinformation. I would expect no less from you two.

It is amusing to watch the Liberals have one last "Blame it on Bush" orgy. There are two years left in 0bama's administration, and you're still stuck falling back on "Blame it on Bush" because this current President has been a monumental failure and you can't point the finger at your god.

It's a little creepy to be honest, that you're so brainwashed as to fall back on that old gag rather than deal with the current administration's huge pile of fail. But hey, If you feel the need to sympathize with terrorist over your political beliefs, then so be it.

Seven CIA directors have now refuted the assertion that no useful information was gained from the enhanced interrogation methods. I tend to believe them over the liars that brought us O-Care.

Feinstein was head of the Senate intelligence committee during all this time. She knew what was going on and as well as the rest of the Democrats and they condoned it. Now as they lost the midterm elections and are being driven out of office due to their lies and mismanagement, they strike back in an attempt to bite the hand that bested them.

They are just a bunch of self-serving rich sore losers who make thin attempts at placating the mob that elected them but then carry on feathering their own nests while tearing down the USA.

LEADERS NEVER DIVIDE THEIR PEOPLE. CONQUERORS DO. This has been the most divisive administration in the history of the United States.
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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Buzzard on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:00 pm

What's really moronic is not assigning any blame to the Commander-In-Chief on watch during the terrorist attack, especially when he whiffed on sixty something warnings! What would you expect 7 former CIA Directors to say?? They are just about as believable as Cheney!! No

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Pigeon on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:18 pm


LEADERS NEVER DIVIDE THEIR PEOPLE. CONQUERORS DO. This has been the most divisive administration in the history of the United States.

Aren't you just a little tired of defending that lie?

Seven CIA directors have now refuted the assertion that no useful information was gained from the enhanced interrogation methods

Brennan, himself, said it was questionable  if torture (and it is torture, so lets call it what it is) provided useful info...in fact several CIA interrogators said they gained actionable intel before the "CIA-hired" private contractors  began torturing prisoners in undisclosed countries. I guess you didn't see the interview with the psychologist that was paid over $81 million to develop a torture program, even though he had zero credentials to back-up his recommendations.

WASHINGTON (AP) — When the CIA set out to design a program to elicit intelligence from captured terrorists, it turned to two former Air Force psychologists with no practical interrogation experience and no specialized knowledge of al-Qaida, according to a Senate investigation released this week.

What the two men did have was an understanding of the brutal methods used by governments such as North Korea and Vietnam to help train U.S. soldiers and airmen to resist torture.

The spy agency ended up outsourcing much of its interrogation program to the pair, who formed a company that ultimately was paid $81 million, the Senate report says. It adds new details to what has long been known about the integral role the two psychologists played in some of the harshest treatment of CIA detainees.

The report refers to the men using pseudonyms, Grayson Swigart and Hammond Dunbar. But current and former U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity about information that is not public, have identified them as James E. Mitchell and Bruce Jessen.
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/politics/article/Psychologist-defends-harsh-CIA-interrogations-5947802.php

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  Outerlimits on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:56 pm

News Buzzard wrote:What's really moronic is not assigning any blame to the Commander-In-Chief on watch during the terrorist attack, especially when he whiffed on sixty something warnings! What would you expect 7 former CIA Directors to say?? They are just about as believable as Cheney!! No


Nobody but batsh!t crazy progressives believes this nonsense.  I don’t even believe you do, but you can’t help but take a shot at Bush.  Very Happy


News Pigeon wrote:

LEADERS NEVER DIVIDE THEIR PEOPLE. CONQUERORS DO. This has been the most divisive administration in the history of the United States.

Aren't you just a little tired of defending that lie?:

I believe this country is more divided then it’s been in a very long time.  It is impossible to refute this fact, but keep on trying.

Brennan, himself, said it was questionable  if torture (and it is torture, so lets call it what it is) provided useful info...


Yeah that is really not what he said.

Brennan stated that the CIA takes no position on whether the enhanced I interrogation tactics themselves led detainees to cooperate, there is no doubt that detainees subjected to the treatment offered "useful and valuable" information afterward.

Now if you want to twist it and say it was a coincidence they gave it up afterwards or they might have been able to get the same information by taking the terrorist to Starbucks and sharing a latte with them, I guess it is possible, but not really likely.  

For those not previously Grubered, this excuse from the left really holds no water.
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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Buzzard on Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:42 pm

Outerlimits wrote:
News Buzzard wrote:What's really moronic is not assigning any blame to the Commander-In-Chief on watch during the terrorist attack, especially when he whiffed on sixty something warnings! What would you expect 7 former CIA Directors to say?? They are just about as believable as Cheney!! No


Nobody but batsh!t crazy progressives believes this nonsense.  I don’t even believe you do, but you can’t help but take a shot at Bush.  Very Happy

It's obvious the Senate believed it, hence the report! This country is divided only because the troll right wingers have nothing better to do than attack Obama!!! Wink

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Pigeon on Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:53 pm

Brennan stated that the CIA takes no position on whether the enhanced I interrogation tactics themselves led detainees to cooperate, there is no doubt that detainees subjected to the treatment offered "useful and valuable" information afterward.

Now if you want to twist it and say it was a coincidence they gave it up afterwards or they might have been able to get the same information by taking the terrorist to Starbucks and sharing a latte with them, I guess it is possible, but not really likely.


Again, he equivocated on the question because he knows the correct answer is NO.....now if you and others condone this type of interrogation, then you are no better than the savages who behead Americans..


Nobody but batsh!t crazy progressives believes this nonsense.

Oh, is that a Saul Alinsky tactic? Rolling Eyes

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Hawk on Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:08 pm

Outerlimits wrote:"...I believe this country is more divided then it’s been in a very long time. It is impossible to refute this fact, but keep on trying..."
It's worse for our allies around the world:

No

America’s allies will certainly take a very long look at whether or not it’s in their best interest to cooperate with us in future endeavors, not knowing whether their participation will end up on the front page of the New York Times, or be trumpeted by pompous, holier-than-thou American news anchors.

Particularly our friends, and we do have them, in the Arab world
. They are the ones who will be placed in very precarious positions once word of their assistance to us in the past has been revealed.

But Senator Diane Feinstein, ignoring the ‘law of unintended consequences’, and with the encouragement and full support of the Obama White House and one Republican useful idiot, pushed forward with releasing this report with little regard for the potential violent repercussions expected around the Muslim world.

Taking center stage the other day Senator Diane Feinstein told the world her forty million dollar ‘knock knock joke’, but unfortunately the only ones laughing now are our enemies.
Townhall [/quote]

pale


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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Pigeon on Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:23 pm

But Senator Diane Feinstein, ignoring the ‘law of unintended consequences’, and with the encouragement and full support of the Obama White House and one Republican useful idiot, pushed forward with releasing this report with little regard for the potential violent repercussions expected around the Muslim world

It's a little late for that, isn't it? I believe that's why ISIS formed and that's why our guys are getting their heads lopped off....

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Hawk on Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:11 pm

Outerlimits wrote:"...Brennan, himself, said it was questionable  if torture (and it is torture, so lets call it what it is) provided useful info..."

Let's see...who I prefer to be "tortured" with water, or have my head lopped off?

drunken

Brennan is said to be a Muslim convert—occurring long ago when in Saudi Arabia.

"...Guandolo said, "Mr. Brennan did convert to Islam when he served in an official capacity on the behalf of the United States in Saudi Arabia.

But it's worse than a mere conversion to Islam. Guandolo expounded, "That fact alone is not what is most disturbing. His conversion to Islam was the culmination of a counterintelligence operation against him to recruit him. The fact that foreign intelligence service operatives recruited Mr. Brennan when he was in a very sensitive and senior U.S. government position in a foreign country means that he either a traitor … [or] he has the inability to discern and understand how to walk in those kinds of environments, which makes him completely unfit to the be the director of Central Intelligence."

Read more at http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/09/john-brennan-obamas-muslim-convert-stooge-jihad/#ykPhVyiqIHgbWRQH.99

The White House is staffed by several Muslims associated with The Muslim Brotherhood as well.

Figures.

pale


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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  obervantone on Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:59 am

Sounds to me like more "right-wing echo chamber, [where] someone throws some spaghetti against the wall then they all pick it up and E-mail it to each other."

Other prominent people accused of secretly being Muslim include former New York Rep. Anthony Weiner—who is Jewish—and the United Kingdom's Prince Charles, who will preside over the Church of England if he succeeds his mother to the throne
.


http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/02/12/muslim-advocacy-group-theres-no-evidence-that-john-brennan-converted-to-islam

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WH is infiltrated...

Post  News Hawk on Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:47 am

With the exception of Mohammed Elibiary, maybe you don't recognize these names.



Did you know Iranian-born Chicagoan Valerie Jarrett is a senior advisor to President Obama, and what her nicknames are? Familiar with her father's "doings"

scratch


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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  obervantone on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:19 am

Here is what your latest "expert source" had to say about who was responsible for the Boston Marathon bombings the day after the bombings.
Here’s what Emerson said at 9:20 this morning on C-SPAN, citing “confidential information:”

EMERSON: I have been given privy to certain classified information, it appears that it was a political act of terrorism done for political reasons. Yes, there has been no person arrested. There have been people interrogated. Not just in one house, but raids on several houses. On the Facebook page of the person of interest, there were interesting entries against the United States. Again, he has not been convicted, but the burns on his skin match the explosive residue of the bomb that exploded.

HOST: Is this the Saudi national or those two different people?

EMERSON: The Saudi national.

Another qualified expert...just ask him.

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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  News Hawk on Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:48 pm

News Buzzard wrote:What's really moronic is not assigning any blame to the Commander-In-Chief on watch during the terrorist attack, especially when he whiffed on sixty something warnings! What would you expect 7 former CIA Directors to say?? They are just about as believable as Cheney!! No

Do you think that Clinton* deliberately kept Bush from learning of al Qaida? He had one of his top attornies keep the CIA and FBI from conversing over common knowledge. You can thank Jamie Gorelick for producing "The Wall", that enabled 9/11.



Jamie Gorelick: Mistress of Disaster...

http://www.peteandrews.net/site/2008/jamie_gorelick.html

Sad


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Re: Senate Report On CIA Torture

Post  obervantone on Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:54 pm

Odd that the website that you lifted the above from does not contain information about the person or persons that operate the site.  But they do admit violating copywriter laws.
This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner
How about this for a little reading material...ironic that Cheney himself once referenced this website to back up a point that he was making at the time, so it is a site that even Dicky boy knows is unbiased.
http://www.factcheck.org/2014/12/cheneys-tortured-facts/

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Dr. Ben Carson Relates a Sensible Reply...

Post  News Hawk on Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:38 am


Democrats' Wasteful Torture Report

The recent release of a Senate report commissioned by Democrats regarding torture of terrorism suspects in order to obtain vital information was a waste of $40 million of taxpayer money.

It already had been documented extensively that three suspects were waterboarded and that sleep deprivation and other such techniques were used to extract vital information from terrorists. Though the report says otherwise, that information played a part in the apprehension or annihilation of many upper-echelon terrorist leaders, including Osama bin Laden. The high-profile release of this information at a time when we are engaged in war with various terrorist groups demonstrates a profound lack of wisdom because this information will undoubtedly be used as an effective recruitment tool by our enemies.

Some of the people responsible for the release of this report have publicly acknowledged that it could put members of the military and other Americans at significant risk because they could now become prized targets for revenge. It seems likely that the unwise timing of this information release was politically motivated, seeing as control of the Senate will be in Republican hands in January.

This is a prime example of a potentially lethal disease that has infected Washington, called blind partisanship. It is exhibited when people are more concerned about damaging the other party or enhancing their own party than they are about the welfare of their nation. Of course, we should all be concerned about cruel and unusual treatment of any human being, but we must have enough common sense to recognize that it is foolish to do anything that contributes to the long-term weakening of our military efforts, especially when we are engaged in a war, even though some may not want to call it that.

Unfortunately, conflicts and wars seem to be a part of the human condition from which we cannot escape, even though we must never cease trying
. However, when we are involved in a war, we should use every resource available to end it quickly and successfully, including the use of covert weapons and techniques that are not meant for public consumption. It is absolutely foolhardy to believe that everyone is going to abide by the rules of moral war, if there are such things. If we allow our enemies to do anything they want to do, including beheading our citizens, but we feel that we must accord them every courtesy and comfort, our days of winning wars will be over. We should not put our military forces, our intelligence-gathering forces or any of our defensive or offensive personnel in a position of questioning whether we will back them up when a problem arises if they are using their best judgment on behalf of their fellow citizens. This will only cause them to be fearful and tentative at times when definitive and aggressive action is warranted.

The $40 million that was used on this study could have been better employed to study alternative techniques for extracting vital information from unwilling captives, which could be added to our armamentarium. We also need to understand that peace is much more likely to be realized if we are in a position of strength and possess a military force that cannot be challenged. We also might experience more peace if we tried to anticipate and prepare for trouble, as opposed to waiting and simply reacting to ever-increasing problems.

Members of both parties need to take time to figure out who the real enemies are and stop trying to demonize each other. We have a lot to be proud of as Americans. Maybe we should spend time studying and talking about that.
—Townhall

(Author, Dr. Ben Carson)



study

.

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