Senate Report On CIA Torture

CIA’s harsh interrogation tactics crucial in bin Laden capture, Republicans say...

Senate Democrats’ ‘torture report’ claims tactics played no role in finding al Qaeda leader.

Senate committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein's release of the 499-page 'torture report' seemed to have two prime motives. One was to reveal CIA interrogation methods that included waterboarding three al Qaeda chieftains, sleep deprivation, nudity and forced standing in shackles. The other was to dispel the argument from former CIA Director Leon E. Panetta, a fellow Democrat, and George W. Bush administration officials who said enhanced interrogations were critical to the hunt for Osama bin Laden. (Associated Press)

Senate committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein’s release of the 499-page ‘torture report’ seemed to have two prime motives. One was to reveal CIA interrogation methods that included waterboarding three al Qaeda chieftains, sleep deprivation, nudity and forced standing in shackles.

Senate Democrats’ argument that harsh CIA interrogations played no role in finding Osama bin Laden revolves in crucial ways around the life of Hassan Ghul.

It was Hassan Ghul, an al Qaeda operative who moved between Pakistan and Iraq, who turned out to be the most informative biographer of [al Kuwaiti]. It was [al Kuwaiti] who eventually led the CIA to bin Laden’s home address in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

To Democratic staffers who wrote the Dec. 9 Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report on the CIA’s detention and interrogation program, the gems Hassan Ghul presented after capture came before coercive questioning. The Democrats, in a report based solely on thousands of pages of intelligence memos, emails and studies, asserted that he provided nothing of value afterward.

Republican committee members present an entirely different set of facts — using the same documents. They say Hassan Ghul became more expansive, providing details in 2004 that led CIA analysts to focus like a laser on identifying the mystery man known as [al Kuwaiti], who was born Ibrahim Saeed Ahmed and also went by the honorific Abu Ahmed.

The CIA eventually found [al Kuwaiti]. Culminating one of the world’s longest manhunts, he unwittingly led American spies to the walled compound where bin Laden lived with a scant security detail, his youngest wife and [al Kuwaiti].

Senate committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein’s release of the 499-page report seemed to have two prime motives.

One was to reveal CIA interrogation methods that included waterboarding three al Qaeda chieftains, sleep deprivation, nudity and forced standing in shackles. Some human rights groups have called the methods torture.

Mrs. Feinstein, California Democrat, also wanted to dispel the argument from former CIA Director Leon E. Panetta, a fellow Democrat, and George W. Bush administration officials who said enhanced interrogations were critical to the bin Laden hunt.

Hassan Ghul was captured while traveling to meet with Abu Zarqawi, an especially brutal Sunni extremist who led al Qaeda in Iraq, a group that killed thousands of Iraqis, especially Shiites.

Hassan Ghul eventually landed in a CIA black site in Turkey where, a CIA officer later said, “he sang like a tweetie bird. He opened up right away and was cooperative from the outset.”

The prisoner guessed that bin Laden was living in the Peshawar area of Pakistan and that the shadowy [al Kuwaiti], the courier, was his “closest assistant” and “always” with him.

“Hassan Ghul speculated that [al Kuwaiti] likely handled all of [bin Laden’s] needs, including moving messages out to” another al Qaeda chieftain.

The next day, the CIA moved him to the black site.

Hassan Ghul was shaved, stripped and forced to stand against the wall with his hands above his head for 40 minutes. Questioned, he provided no new information. Officers described him as “somewhat arrogant and self important.”

His handlers argued to Langley headquarters that he knew more than he was saying. They asked for permission to turn up the pressure, and the reply was an immediate “Yes.”

The Democratic staff report contends that “during and after the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques, Hassan Ghul provided no other information of substance on [al Kuwaiti].”

“The most accurate intelligence from a detainee on [al Kuwaiti] was acquired prior to the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques,” the Democrats’ report said.

Sen. Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, the committee’s top Republican, and his staff looked at the same reports and came to a 180-degree different conclusion: Hassan Ghul provided more specific information on [al Kuwaiti] that made analysts look in new directions to identify him.

The Republican report quoted a CIA document as saying, “After undergoing enhanced techniques, Hassan Ghul stated that [al Kuwaiti] specifically passed a letter from bin Laden to Abu Faraq in late 2003 and that [al Kuwaiti] had ‘disappeared’ from Karachi, Pakistan, in 2002. This information was not only more concrete and less speculative, but it also corroborated information from [another al Qaeda member].”

That detainee said Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, in custody since 2003, was lying when he claimed al-Kuwaiti left al Qaeda in 2002.

CIA analysts figured that the only reason Khalid Shaikh Mohammed would lie about this particular operative was because he knew the courier could lead Americans to bin Laden.

The U.S. located [al Kuwaiti], who had a speech impediment, sometime around 2009. Voice samples from 2001-02 intercepts were compared with more current ones. The locations led the CIA to believe he was in a specific area in Pakistan. His exact location was determined by geolocation — zeroing in on an Internet or a wireless device he was using.

That, then, is the debate. Senate Democrats say no new information came from Hassan Ghul; the CIA says it did, and it was pivotal.

“Contrary to CIA representations,” Mrs. Feinstein said Dec. 12, after the CIA publicly rebutted her report, “This intelligence operation did not rely on information from CIA detainees after they were subjected to the CIA’s coercive interrogation techniques.”

Her statement listed an intelligence chronology in which the U.S. learned of [al Kuwaiti] and his close association to bin Laden from a number of sources beginning shortly after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The CIA’s declassified 2013 rebuttal to Mrs. Feinstein’s work disagrees. Former CIA officials depicted her work as a partisan hatchet job in which Democratic staffers cherry-picked sentences in reports that bolstered their arguments and left out material that supported the CIA.

The official rebuttal makes the point that just because officers knew of a topic, or individual, before coercive interrogation does not void the fact that valuable information was obtained.

For example, Ghul coughed up tactical details about al Qaeda operations in the Pakistani town of Shkai.

Said the rebuttal, “That intelligence differed significantly in granularity and operational [redacted] from what he provided before enhanced techniques. As a result of his information, we were able to make a [redacted].”

The rebuttal [which refers to Hassan Ghul as Gul] added, “CIA continues to assess that the information derived from Hassan Ghul after the commencement of enhanced techniques provided new and unique insight into al-Qa’ida’s presence and operations in Shkai, Pakistan.

“Before Hassan Ghul’s capture in January 2004, sources of varying credibility gave general information about the town’s importance as an emerging al-Qa’ida safehaven, but Hassan Ghul's debriefings were the most definitive first-hand account of the identities, precise locations, and activities of senior al-Qa’ida members in Shkai at that time. As a result of the information Gul provided, [redacted].”

Concerning the critical identification of [al Kuwaiti], the CIA said harsh interrogations provided information that set him apart from other bin Laden facilitators, including eventually helping learn his true name.

“CIA has never represented that information acquired through its interrogations of detainees was either the first or the only information that we had on [al Kuwaiti],” the rebuttal said. “We have reported — and continue to assess — that the information we acquired from them significantly advanced our understanding of al Kuwaiti] beyond the other intelligence cited in the [Democrats’] Study.”

Hassan Ghul's biography reads like those of other detainees in the war on terrorism. The CIA transferred him to Pakistani authorities, who promptly released him. He went back to fight for al Qaeda, as have scores of other freed detainees.

On Oct. 1, 2012, the CIA assassinated him with a Predator drone strike. His location was determined by the National Security Agency using a series of intrusive cybertechniques, The Washington Post reported based on former NSA contractor Edward Snowden’s leaked documents.

As for [al Kuwaiti], he was killed by SEAL Team 6 in the raid that also vanquished bin Laden.
The Washington Times, LLC.

I JUST ENJOY HOW HE RELATES TO OBAMA & THE REST OF CANDY ASS WASHINGTON CROWD!!!!

I got shot down over N Vietnam in 1967, a Sqdn. Commander.
After I returned in 1973...I published 2 books that dealt a lot
With "real torture" in Hanoi .  Our make-believe president is
Branding our country as a bunch of torturers when he has
No idea what torture is.

As for me, I was put thru a mock execution because I would not respond..
Pistol whipped on the head....same event..  Couple of days later...
Hung by my feet all day. I escaped and a couple of weeks later, I got
Shot and recaptured.  Shot was OK...what happened afterwards was not.

They marched me to Vinh...put me in the rope trick, trick...almost
Pulled my arms out of the sockets. Beat me on the head with a
Little wooden rod until my eyes were swelled shut, and my unshot,
Unbroken hand a pulp.

Next day hung me by the arms...rebroke my right wrist...wiped
Out the nerves in my arms that control the hands....rolled my fingers
Up into a ball.  Only left the slightest movement of my L forefinger.  
So I started answering with some incredible lies.

Sent me to Hanoi strapped to a barrel of gas in the back of a truck.

Hanoi ..on my knees....rope trick again.  Beaten by a big fool.  

Into leg irons on a bed in Heartbreak Hotel.

Much kneeling--hands up at Zoo.

Really bad beating for refusing to condemn Lyndon Johnson.

Several more kneeling events.  I could see my knee bone thru
Kneeling holes.

There was an escape from the annex to the Zoo.  I was the Senior
Officer of a large building... because of escape...they started a mass
Torture of all commanders.

I think it was July 7, 1969...they started beating me with a car fanbelt.
In the first 2 days I took over 300 strokes...then stopped counting
Because I never thought I would live thru it.

They continued day-night torture to get me to confess to a non-existent
Part in the escape.  This went on for at least 3 days.  On my knees...
Fan belting...cut open my scrotum with fan belt stroke.  Opened up
Both knee holes again.  My fanny looked like hamburger...I could not
Lie on my back.

They tortured me into admitting that I was in on the escape...and
That my 2 room-mates knew about it.

The next day I denied the lie.

They commenced torturing me again with 3- 6- or 9 strokes of
The fan belt every day from about July 11 or 12th..to 14 October
1969.  I continued to refuse to lie about my roommates again.

Now, the point of this is that our make-believe
President has declared to the world that we (U.S..) are a bunch of
Torturers...Thus it will be OK to torture us next time when they
Catch us...because that is what the U.S. Does.

Our make-believe president is a know nothing fool who thinks
That pouring a little water on some one's face, or hanging a pair of
women's pants over an Arabs head is TORTURE..  He is a meathead.

I just talked to MOH holder Leo Thorsness, who was also in my squadron,
In jail...as was John McCain...and we agree that McCain does
Not speak for the POW group when he claims that Al Gharib was
Torture...or that "water boarding" is torture.

Our president and those fools around him who keep bad mouthing
Our great country are a disgrace to the United States.  Please pass
This info on to Sean Hannity.  He is free to use it to point out the
Stupidity of the claims that water boarding...which has no after
Effect...is torture.

If it got the Arab to cough up the story about how he planned the attack on the twin towers in NYC ...
Hurrah for the guy who poured the water.
____________________________________________________________________

"Bud" Day, Medal Of Honor Recipient

George Everett "Bud" Day (born February 24, 1925) is a retired
U.S. Air Force Colonel and Command Pilot who served during the
Vietnam War. He is often cited as being the most decorated U.S.  
Service member since General Douglas MacArthur, having
Received some seventy decorations, a majority for actions
In combat. Day is a recipient of the Medal of Honor.

In addition to his stellar military career, never forget, this is the guy
who took on the Clintonistas when they tried to back out of the
"health care for life" contract with military retirees....and WON!!!
("Tri-Care for Life", now extinguished by Obama, along with my VA health plan).
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52863-george-everett-bud-day/

obervantone wrote:...Are there degrees of torture?  Yep.  Does that make torture that "isn't as bad" any less torturous?  Nope.

obervantone wrote:Let's follow your thinking down the slippery slope shall we?  If the use of torture can be justified and declared legally used by US officials, then why can't law enforcement use many of the same techniques in fighting crime?  Think of all the home invasions, and drug deals and yes, even murders that would be prevented if the local police could pull anyone they believe to be "out of place" and subject them to "enhanced interrogation techniques".  

Yeah, we'd be much better off.

Outerlimits wrote: enhanced interrogation techniques

obervantone wrote:Let's follow your thinking down the slippery slope shall we?  If the use of torture can be justified and declared legally used by US officials, then why can't law enforcement use many of the same techniques in fighting crime?  Think of all the home invasions, and drug deals and yes, even murders that would be prevented if the local police could pull anyone they believe to be "out of place" and subject them to "enhanced interrogation techniques".  

Yeah, we'd be much better off.

The victor in yesterday’s California primary in the U.S. Senate, incumbent Democrat Dianne Feinstein, has long faced questions about potential conflicts of interest in Congress, according to Breitbart News sources. Specifically, for at least 15 years, Feinstein has appeared to support government contracts that push federal funds toward companies co-owned or governed by her powerful, billionaire husband, Richard C. Blum.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2012/06/06/dianne-feinstein-still-dogged-by-allegations-of-conflicts-of-interest/

News Buzzard wrote:I'm not joking, Red Hill. The 9/11 Commission report refutes what you just said. Bin Laden wasn't indicted for anything until 1998 and it was Obama who finally found and killed him. Bush got over 60 warnings about an imminent attack and made no attempt to secure the airports or cockpits.

“I think there are sleeper cells not only in France but certainly in other countries and, yes, in our own,” she said on CNN’s “State of the Union” program. “This calls for vigilance. … Hopefully, we can be even more active in terms of doing those things which enable us to find terrorists, see who they’re communicating with and to track that.”

Ms. Feinstein’s words come the same day a new Rasmussen poll shows that 65 percent of Americans believe terrorist attacks similar to those seen in France last week are likely to happen over the next 12 months.

But administration officials say there is no information on specific plots or sleeper cells.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/11/dianne-feinstein-terrorist-sleeper-cells-are-us/#ixzz3OYhe4Rox
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News Buzzard wrote:Brutality, ineffectiveness and dishonesty, brought to us by Bush and Cheney!!