FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

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FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:21 am

I would consider Welch, Diamond, Rattlesnake and Parker all part of the broads.
Point being boat traffic has such little effect on these islands compared to Mother Nature. I see it first hand as I live on the windy side of Welch.  One good storm would equal decades of boating! Saying that 30 boats going around diamond caused erosion is laughable at best...

This poster says the windy side of Welch Island was not affected by boat wakes.

Isn't "the windy side" a very wrong example to use?

scratch
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:39 pm

I would say it depends on how close to shore they were.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  red_hill on Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:23 pm

News Hawk wrote:
I would consider Welch, Diamond, Rattlesnake and Parker all part of the broads.
Point being boat traffic has such little effect on these islands compared to Mother Nature. I see it first hand as I live on the windy side of Welch.  One good storm would equal decades of boating! Saying that 30 boats going around diamond caused erosion is laughable at best...

This poster says the windy side of Welch Island was not affected by boat wakes.

Isn't "the windy side" a very wrong example to use?

scratch

Why not ask there instead of dragging it here?

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:51 pm

red_hill wrote:

Why not ask there instead of dragging it here?

Because FATP has "favorites", and I'm not one of them?

scratch

Forbid that I should counter a FATP "favorite" with Logic and Reason.

drunken

WHL wrote:I would say it depends on how close to shore they were.

Yes, in a way it does; however, every weekend demonstrates that the INSIDE wake's steepness (amplitude) increases—and frequency (wavelength) decreases—as the wake approaches the shore. (Increasing the wake's force).

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:34 pm

Don't feel bad, I am not a favorite there either. I got reprimanded for going a "little" off topic when threads often go WAY off topic. I thought what I said was a natural followup to the conversation but the Webmaster didn't think so I guess.
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Ask Someone Who Boats in a Small Boat...

Post  News Hawk on Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:29 am

I haven't been on here for months. I find it funny that just today, matter of fact probably 6:30 this evening, a friend of mine that lives on Diamond was telling me about the huge waves these boats caused.

While "the friend" could have been the first of the reporting posters who observed the damage, topwater (above) has repeated what I suspect is the truth.

Another chimes in:

We had a Tsunami alert on Barndoor [Island] related to it.

Another:

The wakes they created as they plowed through the Barber Pole were HUGE!! It would have been better if they had been on plane.

Another:

The shoreline of Diamond is rocky ledge backed up by trees & shrubbery. I imagine a million boat wakes that hit the rocks would do no damage. A few that wash over them will tend to wash soil, pine needles, small children and so forth back into the lake. Perhaps many boats, not quite on plane & very close together made the wakes larger than normal - I don't know, I am not an expert There was quite a mess in the water after the parade went by. In any case, I did not complain, I just observed.

Of course, these "complainers" were ridiculed by "the favorites".

"...Laughable at best..."

pale

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:44 pm

There is that awful speed that makes huge wakes. It's not slow and it's not on plane. Some people seem to think that is slow enough for "no wake". Obviously they don't know what no wake means.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  red_hill on Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:03 pm

News Hawk wrote:
I haven't been on here for months. I find it funny that just today, matter of fact probably 6:30 this evening, a friend of mine that lives on Diamond was telling me about the huge waves these boats caused.

While "the friend" could have been the first of the reporting posters who observed the damage, topwater (above) has repeated what I suspect is the truth.

Another chimes in:

We had a Tsunami alert on Barndoor [Island] related to it.

Another:

The wakes they created as they plowed through the Barber Pole were HUGE!! It would have been better if they had been on plane.

Another:

The shoreline of Diamond is rocky ledge backed up by trees & shrubbery. I imagine a million boat wakes that hit the rocks would do no damage. A few that wash over them will tend to wash soil, pine needles, small children and so forth back into the lake. Perhaps many boats, not quite on plane & very close together made the wakes larger than normal - I don't know, I am not an expert There was quite a mess in the water after the parade went by. In any case, I did not complain, I just observed.

Of course, these "complainers" were ridiculed by "the favorites".

"...Laughable at best..."

pale

.
Can't win with you... in this case under powered boats going too slow caused the issue (that didn't impact you in anyway)

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:18 am

red_hill wrote:
Can't win with you... in this case under powered boats going too slow caused the issue (that didn't impact you in anyway)
Underpowered boats? There's some information waiting to be shared?

scratch

Everything that affects Winnipesaukee's water quality affects all of us—especially the local economy. A lake this big shouldn't have eutrophic effects, but it shows in the algae and exotic milfoil fed by an oversupply of phosphorus (leach-fields) and nitrogen (fertilized lawns) washed into the lake.

You probably don't remember when the lake was free of both significant indicators of decline.

No   

This tree is at least 60 years old. When do you think the soil was washed out from under its roots?

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:29 am

"Blue-green-algae" has already shown up, as well as E. coli infections.  Shall we wait for an infection of "Brain-eating amoeba" (Naegleria fowleri) before addressing the "big-wake" problem?

Shocked

'Think that a case of "Brain-eating amoeba" would be bad for the Lakes Region and its related businesses? Winnipesaukee, cold as it to me, is referred in fishing literature as a "Warm-Water Lake".

Most cases of N. fowleri disease occur in Southern or Southwestern states. Over half of all infections have been in Florida and Texas. However, a recent case in Minnesota suggests either that the amoebas are more common in Northern states than previously known, or that they are spreading into these states.

How Do Amoebas Get in the Brain?

The moniker "brain-eating amoeba" makes naegleria sound like tiny zombies wandering about looking for a way into your skull. But brains are accidental food for them, says Jonathan Yoder, MPH, who tracks the deadly amoeba for the CDC.
http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20110818/brain-eating-amoeba-faq

...and...


The risk of the amoeba being found in the water supply could happen anywhere, because it is most often in warmer waters or in standing waters," Ratard said. "Areas where there is a lot of pollution in the water system are at risk..."
http://news.discovery.com/human/health/could-brain-eating-amoeba-invade-your-faucet-131011.htm

Maybe it's better just to ignore such investigations or, should it happen here—to hush it up?

scratch

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  red_hill on Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:56 am

News Hawk wrote:
red_hill wrote:
Can't win with you... in this case under powered boats going too slow caused the issue (that didn't impact you in anyway)
Underpowered boats? There's some information waiting to be shared?

scratch

Everything that affects Winnipesaukee's water quality affects all of us—especially the local economy. A lake this big shouldn't have eutrophic effects, but it shows in the algae and exotic milfoil fed by an oversupply of phosphorus (leach-fields) and nitrogen (fertilized lawns) washed into the lake.

You probably don't remember when the lake was free of both significant indicators of decline.

No   

This tree is at least 60 years old. When do you think the soil was washed out from under its roots?


Yes underpowered. Virtually every cruiser on this lake is underpowered and puts out a monster wake struggling to get on plane.

How do lawns and leach fields have anything to do with the topic of wake. You easily have the worst case of ADHD or or the most obtuse person I have encountered.

You don't remember when the lake was clean- perhaps only the native American knew it that way. Please try to tell me that your family's house did not (OR does not have) a cesspool, leaching field or similar that has allowed effluent to get in the water.

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:34 pm

red_hill wrote:
Yes underpowered. Virtually every cruiser on this lake is underpowered and puts out a monster wake struggling to get on plane.

There were "cruisers" on the 30-boat parade? All of them?

The cruisers around this way don't seem to be underpowered:



red_hill wrote:How do lawns and leach fields have anything to do with the topic of wake. You easily have the worst case of ADHD or or the most obtuse person I have encountered.
Read the above quotes regarding pollution:
"Areas where there is a lot of pollution in the water system are at risk..."

Oversized wakes will pull soil out from under trees: some of that contains clear, but contaminated, leachates from septic leachfields, and some of that is lawn fertilizer—both contribute Potassium and Nitrogen, the building blocks for simple life forms like Naegleria fowleri—but blue-green algae is also deadly (and drains into Lake Winnipesaukee—ask WHL).

red_hill wrote:You don't remember when the lake was clean- perhaps only the native American knew it that way. Please try to tell me that your family's house did not (OR does not have) a cesspool, leaching field or similar that has allowed effluent to get in the water.
Sorry, but the lake was clear of algae and exotic milfoil when my Dad built our place. We drank the water without discussion.

One of the cleanest lakes in the Lakes Region still has outhouses on its islands; but more significantly, they don't have the oversized boats whose oversized wakes drag pollutants into the lake.

Our neighbor's new house shares one septic system with its antique neighbor. The developer had owned both lots, and was free to double the input to an "approved/legal" septic system. The following year, there were odiferous failures, with the contaminated effluent (clear, but with with a reddish-brown tint) pooling in the area of their perched beach. (Easily reached by oversized boat wakes, especially if combined with wakes from other oversized boats).

The following video is nowhere near the worst I've seen, but might give some idea of what some boaters unknowingly leave behind them:

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:18 am

It seems like everybody dislikes what they don't have or don't do. If you don't have a sailboat, you hate sailboats, if you don't have a cruiser, you hate cruisers, if you live on the lake, you hate day boaters, if you are a day boater you hate those that live on the lake. And on and on it goes. Why is that? Why can't we be tolerant of one another. And BTW, that algae (not the blue green algae but the algae we get every year) is supposedly a sign the lake is healthy. That is what a lady from the state told me when she was here and looked at it.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  red_hill on Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:19 am

WHL wrote:It seems like everybody dislikes what they don't have or don't do.  If you don't have a sailboat, you hate sailboats, if you don't have a cruiser, you hate cruisers, if you live on the lake, you hate day boaters, if you are a day boater you hate those that live on the lake.  And on and on it goes.  Why is that?  Why can't we be tolerant of one another.  And BTW, that algae (not the blue green algae but the algae we get every year) is supposedly a sign the lake is healthy.  That is what a lady from the state told me when she was here and looked at it.  

I have no issues with anyone recreating on the lake in virtually any way. I do laugh at the self-appointed WH watcher of all he dislikes. It must be a miserable existence in that mind of his. So much anger.

And yes... the 4 Winns is a perfect example of an underpowered cruiser. Oversized for a 44K acre lake? No. Underpowered? YES! Plows water until it can get on plane.


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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:47 pm

Red, you don't and I don't but just read that other forum for a while and think about it.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:56 pm

WHL wrote:It seems like everybody dislikes what they don't have or don't do.  If you don't have a sailboat, you hate sailboats, if you don't have a cruiser, you hate cruisers, if you live on the lake, you hate day boaters, if you are a day boater you hate those that live on the lake.  And on and on it goes.  Why is that?  Why can't we be tolerant of one another.  
Winter Harbor was so much nicer before visitors kept getting bigger and bigger boats. Where we once had a slalom water ski course, we now have our own weekend parade of cruisers heading to Johnson's Cove. It starts about 11:00, and another weekend parade—much faster for some reason—heading out after 4-PM. If at the same time, you're in a small boat, or floating in a tube, you'll know what it's like to be a lakefront property owner whose shoreline waters turns muddy, and becomes even muddier every weekend.

WHL wrote:And BTW, that algae (not the blue green algae but the algae we get every year) is supposedly a sign the lake is healthy.  That is what a lady from the state told me when she was here and looked at it.  
She was misinformed: algae and exotic milfoil are not desirable, even in an aquarium. Algae smells bad, even when it's healthy. When it dies, it produces toxic gases!

Even the Great Lakes (besides Lake Erie) have too much algae:

Update, August 4, 2014, 11:30a.m.: Officials are scrambling to address a growing algae bloom in Lake Erie that threatens the water supply of hundreds of thousands of people in parts of Michigan and Ohio. After tests at a water treatment plant showed dangerous levels of contamination, Toledo, Ohio officials warned residents not to use city water early Saturday. The water ban was lifted Monday, but the algae bloom isn't expected to peak until September, potentially continuing to pollute the lake that supplies drinking water for 11 million people.

When algal blooms sink to the bottom and die, the decomposition process uses up so much oxygen that nothing else can live in the hypolimnion, creating a dead zone. In Lake Erie, the hypoxic dead zone is typically found in the lake’s central basin.
http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/2014/world/choke-point-index-great-lakes-drinking-water-fouled-by-toxic-algae/



red_hill wrote:I have no issues with anyone recreating on the lake in virtually any way. I do laugh at the self-appointed WH watcher of all he dislikes. It must be a miserable existence in that mind of his. So much anger.
I have issues with those who are scofflaws, who treat the lake like a trash pit, and who have no consideration for others recreating in Lake Winnipesaukee's protected bays, coves, and harbors.

No

Knock yourselves out in open waters—if you must.

Suspect

red_hill wrote:And yes... the 4 Winns is a perfect example of an underpowered cruiser. Oversized for a 44K acre lake? No.  

Oversized for Lake Winnipesaukee's protected bays, coves, and harbors?

scratch

red_hill wrote:Underpowered? YES! Plows water until it can get on plane.

Sailboats (those that plane) do the same.

Rolling Eyes

Perhaps cruisers should observe some consideration for others, and proceed at "headway speed" until clear of Lake Winnipesaukee's protected bays, coves, and harbors?

(Some do...!)

Shocked

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:25 am

You proved my point exactly. You don't have a cruiser so you don't like cruisers. You don't moor on the lake so you don't like moorers, you don't have a fast or loud boat so you don't like those. BTW, stirring up the waters by boats, keeps the muck away, it may make it muddy for a while but it is actually keeping the lake from becoming one big muck field in which you couldn't even swim eventually. It could be that you know more than the lady from DES, I don't know. I won't argue about that. I do know what she told me.

I feel that I am tolerant of all that use the lake. I am not tolerant of those that don't tolerate others. I am not tolerant of others that are not respectful to others.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:53 am

News Hawk wrote:

Seen this on Lake Winnipesaukee?


Evil or Very Mad

Texas and California:

Two dead of brain-eating amoebas:

http://www.accuweather.com/en/features/trend/brain_eating_amoeba_texas_teen_14_year_old_swimming_warm_water_lake/52129550



Riley's family said the amoeba likely entered his naval cavities as he jumped into the lake.

The family said the CDC flew an experimental drug to the Texas Children's Hospital from its Atlanta headquarters, but it proved unsuccessful for this case.

The young cross-country athlete was preparing to enter high school as a freshman this year.

.


Last edited by News Hawk on Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:14 am

I agree. Some moorers are obnoxious. They are loud themselves, play their music loud and just don't seem to care about others. They use other's docks and land and go to the bathroom on people's property or in the lake. I won't argue with you. I have seen and heard it all. I am just saying there are good and bad to all things. I try to be tolerant of all sides. It is when people abuse that people get frustrated.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:37 pm

WHL wrote:I agree.  Some moorers are obnoxious.  They are loud themselves, play their music loud and just don't seem to care about others.  They use other's docks and land and go to the bathroom on people's property or in the lake.  I won't argue with you.  I have seen and heard it all.  I am just saying there are good and bad to all things.  I try to be tolerant of all sides.  It is when people abuse that people get frustrated.

What happens when nobody complains?



.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:59 am

WEll, you are right. A law is only good if it is enforced. That is why making more laws doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:10 am

WHL wrote:There is that awful speed that makes huge wakes. It's not slow and it's not on plane.  Some people seem to think that is slow enough for "no wake".  Obviously they don't know what no wake means.

From FATP, I have adopted the term, "Mush-Speed", which describes the picture I have in my mind of those boats trimmed to run in that manner. I see it every day.

WHL wrote:"...You proved my point exactly.  You don't have a cruiser so you don't like cruisers..."  


There was an explosion of cruisers on Lake Winnipesaukee during Reagan's term. Then Congress adopted the "Luxury Tax", which sank the boating industry before even Liberals in Congress realized their mistake in killing "The Golden Goose".



Besides being chased after dark by the oversized Chris Craft cruiser "Sea Witch" (above), my last boating misfortune involved a large cruiser towing a water skier in Winter Harbor. Slowing to avoid hitting its massive wake is what sank my last hydroplane. Although I hit the wake head-on and at moderate speed, my hydroplane was pushed back, with a massive wake filling the cockpit over the transom!   affraid

Fortunately, I had a "chase boat" following me, and we recovered it in a few minutes by both of us pulling it across the boat—about mid-deck. Shortly afterwards, the engine started right back up,  but startled by the outcome of crossing one boat's wake, I ended up selling it to a buyer from Mirror Lake, and never saw it again.

Sad

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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  WHL on Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:18 am

You shouldn't hit a big wake head on. You should hit it at a slight angle.
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Re: FATP: A 30-Boat Parade Has No Effect on Island Erosion...

Post  News Hawk on Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:55 am

WHL wrote:You shouldn't hit a big wake head on.  You should hit it at a slight angle.  

Yes, that works just fine with a bigger boat.

When your hydroplane fits between the peaks of oversized wakes, you expect to ride the swells like a surfboard. Even using accelerating power, I got "tipped" into reverse!

Today, I wouldn't suggest a canoe take on those huge swells, but to ride them out—like a surfboard. If the swells are breaking, you're toast! (And they break far behind an oversized boat and the operator can't see the effects).

(Not SUP—stand-up boards—which toss their riders when encountering even lesser wakes).  

No
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