Is the lake safer?

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Is the lake safer?

Post  obervantone on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:59 pm

A lot of hype was thrown out there regarding how safe the lake will be because of speed limits.  
According to US Coast Guard Statistics there has been virtually no change in the number of accidents in NH since speed limits went into effect on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Number of boating accidents in NH in 2010  46
Number of boating accidents in NH in 2014  44

Boy, I feel a lot safer!

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  WHL on Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:59 pm

That's only confirmation of what many of us already knew.
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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  News Hawk on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:53 am

WHL wrote:That's only confirmation of what many of us already knew.

I don't know about that.

scratch

Member Tone has "cherry-picked" data from the Coast Guard that includes a lot of salt water, and many other NH lakes.

pale

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  Amy B on Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:54 am

Is the lake is safer or not...who knows. My neighbors are amazed at how much quieter the lake has become. We have some friends from the Barber Pole as well who appreciate that boats are no longer screaming through at 70 MPH with a deafening roar (and this cannot be fully attributed to "switchable exhaust"). I noticed this from offshoreonly which may help explain the improvement:




Thanks for the info guys. That lake is so much fun and has so many options, it's a shame "we" basically got run out of there. I remember seeing 20-30 offshore boats at any given time/day. My Nor-Tech is quite loud and I am sure would gather the attention of the blue lights unfortunately, if they are still harping on that. Although I am sure chsales Apache isn't quiet! So you never know ...
Its a long winding back-road trip for me to get there, and to only have to turn back around would suck. I may try to call the warden's service and see what they think. I could handle not speeding around for the week, just don't want to get beat up over the noise "violation" , so to speak.
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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  red_hill on Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:31 am

Amy B wrote:Is the lake is safer or not...who knows. My neighbors are amazed at how much quieter the lake has become. We have some friends from the Barber Pole as well who appreciate that boats are no longer screaming through at 70 MPH with a deafening roar (and this cannot be fully attributed to "switchable exhaust"). I noticed this from offshoreonly which may help explain the improvement:


WTF are you doing on offshoreonly, trolling? LOL I would hate to have you spill a spritzer while enjoying the sunset on your dock.

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  Amy B on Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:49 am

I love OSO because I own a 30' Baja that will double the speed limit Smile
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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  obervantone on Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:30 am

It's-Not-News-Hawk wrote:
WHL wrote:
That's only confirmation of what many of us already knew.
I don't know about that.

Member Tone has "cherry-picked" data from the Coast Guard that includes a lot of salt water, and many other NH lakes.
You're right...the numbers from the Coast Guard are for the entire state....then and now....so the numbers for Winnipesaukee are no doubt even lower...before the speed limit took effect and now.

Not seeing the huge difference that was promised by all those fear mongers.  To quote a member of the legislature...."A solution in search of a problem".

And what does the Marine Patrol think about all this?...Do they think that the speed limit has made things safer?  
Not exactly...
The accident numbers have been steadily decreasing since 2008, when the state enacted a mandatory boater education program. During the six years prior, the state averaged 62½ reportable accidents a year. Since 2008, the average number of reportable accidents each summer has dropped to just over 43 a year.“ The boater awareness program is clearly working,” Dunleavy said.

See more at: http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20140513/NEWS07/140519645#sthash.vuswPFTM.dpuf

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  WHL on Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:27 pm

I don't believe that the boater safety courses made any difference.
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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  obervantone on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:50 pm

WHL
I don't believe that the boater safety courses made any difference.
No?
What would you attribute the decrease in the average of 20 boating accidents a year since 2008 in NH to?

The Marine Patrol and the Coast Guard have numbers backing them up....such as the 77% of fatal boating accidents nationally involving operators who have never had any kind of boater education;

http://www.uscgboating.org/library/accident-statistics/Recreational-Boating-Statistics-2014.pdf

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  News Hawk on Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:52 pm

WHL wrote:I don't believe that the boater safety courses made any difference.  

New Hampshire accepts out-of-state certificates.

Some certificate-holders passed their test 15 years ago.

I recall that New Jersey and Connecticut tests are "in revision".

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  obervantone on Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:38 pm

It's-Not-News-Hawk wrote:
New Hampshire accepts out-of-state certificates.

Some certificate-holders passed their test 15 years ago.
Oh my!   15 years ago!  
Tell us, when did you get your driver's license?  
Have to take any driving tests to renew it?  
Your drivers license is an out of state license isn't it?  
Oh my!


Regarding the "revisions" of the CT and NJ tests:

NJ's revision deal with the "title" of a boat...as for CT;
Connecticut Boater License
To legally operate any boat with an engine or motor, or a sailboat 19 1/2 ft or longer, you must obtain a Safe Boating Certificate (SBC) if:

You're a Connecticut resident.
Own property in Connecticut.
You operate the vessel on Connecticut waters for more than 60 days.

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  WHL on Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:17 am

I saw people that I knew just took the test do things that were illegal. And they were intelligent people. You can't teach common sense I guess.
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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  obervantone on Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:14 am

WHL
You can't teach common sense I guess.
That I agree with, but boater education HAS made a difference and improved safety....the speed limit has not made any change in safety on the lake.

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  WHL on Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:05 pm

I don't think either has made any difference on the lake.
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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  obervantone on Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:11 pm

You can believe what you want, but educating people about safe boating practices, even if they don't always follow the law, is NEVER a bad thing as evidence in the reduction of the average number of accidents from 62 to 43 (statewide).

Found this on a NHPR site....interesting....notice no mention of speed.

Here's what the data shows:
•You're most like to have an accident at the end of the weekend. One-third of the 49 accidents reported in 2013-2014 happened on Sundays.
•It's most likely your fault. The causes most commonly cited in reported accidents are "improper lookout" (15 mentions), "operator inattention" (11 mentions), "navigation rules violation" (10 mentions), and "operator inexperience" (6 mentions).

That would be 24.5 accidents on Lake Winnipesaukee annually for the two years mentioned.

http://nhpr.org/post/interactive-map-boating-accidents-lake-winnipesaukee

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  News Hawk on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:41 am

obervantone wrote:You can believe what you want, but educating people about safe boating practices, even if they don't always follow the law, is NEVER a bad thing as evidence in the reduction of the average number of accidents from 62 to 43 (statewide).
In addition, that's why the Winnipesaukee Speed Limit is a good idea.

The scofflaw caught in a S/L violation can't claim ignorance—especially where there's an injury.

Of course, he can always hit-and-run to avoid prosecution—which started the whole thing.

He wasn't THAT drunk!

No

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  News Hawk on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:47 am

obervantone wrote:
It's-Not-News-Hawk wrote:
New Hampshire accepts out-of-state certificates.

Some certificate-holders passed their test 15 years ago.
Oh my!   15 years ago!  
Tell us, when did you get your driver's license?  
Have to take any driving tests to renew it?  
Your drivers license is an out of state license isn't it?  
Oh my!

Florida drivers include the "refugees" who are still trickling in to South Florida. Their "instructors" translate the answers to their driver's tests. Other states are giving-away drivers licenses to those who immigrated illegally.

New Hampshire hasn't had to deal with them—yet!


obervantone wrote:Regarding the "revisions" of the CT and NJ tests:

NJ's revision deal with the "title" of a boat...as for CT;
Connecticut Boater License
To legally operate any boat with an engine or motor, or a sailboat 19 1/2 ft or longer, you must obtain a Safe Boating Certificate (SBC) if:

You're a Connecticut resident.
Own property in Connecticut.
You operate the vessel on Connecticut waters for more than 60 days.

Well, Connecticut has finally caught up with those scofflaw sailboats!

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  obervantone on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:30 am

It's-Not-News-Hawk
OO
You can believe what you want, but educating people about safe boating practices, even if they don't always follow the law, is NEVER a bad thing as evidence in the reduction of the average number of accidents from 62 to 43 (statewide).
In addition, that's why the Winnipesaukee Speed Limit is a good idea.
Funny though, first you told me I was "cherry picking" the numbers because they were Coast Guard numbers for statewide...the Marine Patrol is then quoted as crediting boater education as the reason for the significant statewide decrease in accidents with no mention of speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee factoring into the equation, yet you decide that speed limits are the real reason?  

Odd the Marine Patrol didn't mention it, nor was excessive speed mentioned in the article by NHPR breaking down accidents on Lake Winnipseaukee in 2013 and 2014.

You also appear to be contradicting yourself again with this remark
It's-Not-News-Hawk wrote:
New Hampshire accepts out-of-state certificates.

Some certificate-holders passed their test 15 years ago.
That certainly implies that out-of-staters, such as yourself, who have taken the boating safety exams years ago, such as yourself, are the root cause of boating accidents.  
Yet you do not seem to carry that concern over behind the wheel of your car.  

You do bring up an interesting question.  How much of the property owned at Lake Winnipesaukee is owned by NH Lakes Region residents and how much is owned by out-of-staters.  I would venture to guess that at least half, if not more, are owned by out-of-staters as most New Hampshire residents are priced out of the picture with modest places built in Winter Harbor in the mid 50's now valued at over $1,000,000...I'd say the majority of property owners are probably "from away", like yourself.

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Re: Is the lake safer?

Post  obervantone on Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:19 pm

It's-Not-News-Hawk wrote:
The scofflaw caught in a S/L violation can't claim ignorance—especially where there's an injury.

Of course, he can always hit-and-run to avoid prosecution—which started the whole thing.

He wasn't THAT drunk!
Nah, he wasn't THAT drunk...drinking all day at an establishment that one of the benefactors of the speed limit crusade had an interest in, it was magic booze, didn't get him THAT drunk.  
Of course speed was reason...what is that?  He was shown to be traveling at below the current nighttime speed limit at the time of the accident?
He must have been going too fast...yeah, that's the ticket, not booze...it was a Baja and those boats can't travel below 10,000 MPH !
 Hmmm

Interesting that I did find this:
The State of New Hampshire has not enacted a law regarding civil penalties for social hosting.
 
I have not looked, but I wonder if this entire speed limit debate was designed to make sure that a "social hosting bill" was not filed after the Meredith boating accident. Given that the Marine Patrol, on a number of occasions, stated that speed was not and is not an issue on Lake Winnipesauksee, I would speculate that slight of hand to prevent a "social hosting bill" was in play here, and speed limit supporters and lawmakers fell for it.

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