Any violations here?

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:55 am

scratch



pirat

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:33 pm

When I tow a disabled vessel, after the tow line is attached, I have all POB in the vessel being towed seated and wearing a PFD.
While other than the fact that the person on the tube is apparently not wearing a PFD although it is difficult to see, I would say that while this is a very bad way to have the POB situated in the towed vessel, and I certainly wouldn't allow the tube, I think you would be hard pressed to find an RSA pointing out an actual violation of the law here.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:13 pm

There should be someone at the helm and the tow rope is too short*.

The tube doesn't have brakes!

affraid

*But what's too short nowadays?

scratch
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:27 pm

Agreed on both counts, but you said VIOLATIONS I take that to mean VIOLATION OF THE LAW and given your photo the ONLY possible VIOLATION OF THE LAW is the person on the tube may not be wearing a PFD but that is impossible to tell in the photo.  
Also, looking at a still photo, we don't know how far into the tow this is...I would speculate that the tow had just started and the person on the bow is about to head back to the helm after ensuring the tow line is secure. I base that on the photo because the operator of the tow boat appears to be also looking back at the tow line.

As I said, not the way I would conduct a tow, but no violation of the law.  If you think it is please provide the RSA number.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:05 pm

I see more than one "count" here...



Suspect

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 04, 2015 8:46 pm

You keep changing the "facts".  
In THIS NEW photo, which is different from the initial photo, what I see is a stationary boat with two people lying on a tube floating maybe a foot off the stern of a stationary boat and "Mom" siting on the stern seat of the boat keeping a close eye on the kids.  

So in your latest photo, no. No evidence of the boat moving and no violation of any kind depicted in this latest photo.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:27 am

obervantone wrote:You keep changing the "facts".  
In THIS NEW photo, which is different from the initial photo, what I see is a stationary boat with two people lying on a tube floating maybe a foot off the stern of a stationary boat and "Mom" siting on the stern seat of the boat keeping a close eye on the kids.  

So in your latest photo, no. No evidence of the boat moving and no violation of any kind depicted in this latest photo.

The original was a video, of which, these two views were taken as "snapshots". The above is a slight enlargement. The boat is moving slowly (towed) at this point, as evidenced by a small wake.

Is one observer sufficient (today) for three tubers? I forget...

scratch

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  WHL on Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:13 am

No I believe you need two observers for three but the boat is not under power.... Also the woman should not be sitting on the back of the boat if it is underway but again, the boat is not under it's own power so what would the rules be. Can you sit on the back of a boat if it isn't under power or just if it isn't moving?
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:12 pm

Perhaps it was a video, but a video is not what you shared with us, so based on your two still photos depicting two different boating situations, no VIOLATION of the law and if you believe otherwise , as I asked previously, pleas provide the RSA number.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Not a "Gothcha" Question, Unless Made into One...

Post  News Hawk on Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:40 am

obervantone wrote:Perhaps it was a video, but a video is not what you shared with us, so based on your two still photos depicting two different boating situations, no VIOLATION of the law and if you believe otherwise , as I asked previously, pleas provide the RSA number.
I had originally thought this oversized boat was making too large a wake for a protected harbor, so I videotaped the oversized boat with the oversized wake. I didn't know it was going to stop in the middle, and get a tow. Question

As the observing NHMP, I'd have charged the operator with three [moving] violations for the kids without the required PFDs. How different is their hazard should one (or more) slip off, unobserved? It's no different than a wake-surfer being hit with an oversized boat's oversized wake.

I'd add another violation for having insufficient observers, and let the judge sort it out.

pirat

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:08 am

You asked about violation of the law based on a single still photo.  In that photo I gave you my opinion, then you showed a second still photo that depicted zero violations...then you claim it's all part of a video and that the "oversized" boat...what a 25, 27 footer, was leaving too large of a wake for a bay the size of Winter Harbor...
Putting your NHMP hat on you've decided to issue citations.
As a NHMP hat wearer you need to reference the RSA that has been violated, so based on the photos that YOU presented as evidence,(two still photos, not a video that you claim exists but you are the only one that saw) please share that RSA.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:33 pm

obervantone wrote:You asked about violation of the law based on a single still photo.  In that photo I gave you my opinion, then you showed a second still photo that depicted zero violations...then you claim it's all part of a video and that the "oversized" boat...what a 25, 27 footer, was leaving too large of a wake for a bay the size of Winter Harbor...
Putting your NHMP hat on you've decided to issue citations.
As a NHMP hat wearer you need to reference the RSA that has been violated, so based on the photos that YOU presented as evidence,(two still photos, not a video that you claim exists but you are the only one that saw) please share that RSA.
Thank you for your opinion.

The first photo wasn't sufficient to show the tubers wearing PFDs. The second photo clarifies what you couldn't observe (just as I couldn't observe). Both observers and three PFDs were absent, hence the charges. I'll check on the RSA the next time I get up.

(Long Day).

Like a Star @ heaven

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:59 pm

The flaws in your presentation are simple.
In the first photo the tow appears to be just getting underway.  Both the operator of the tow boat and vessel being towed appear to be checking the tow line, and I will speculate that the tube is being hauled back to the vessel being towed since the person on the tube appears to be pulling on the tow line and the person at the stern of the boat appears to adjusting her position to haul the tow line.  Therefore no violation of any law exists.
The second photo shows a stationary boat with two people floating on a tube.  PFDs are not required to be worn, neither is an observer required when floating on a tube.
Based on the photographic evidence you presented there are NO violations of the law.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:02 am

obervantone wrote:The flaws in your presentation are simple.
In the first photo the tow appears to be just getting underway.  Both the operator of the tow boat and vessel being towed appear to be checking the tow line, and I will speculate that the tube is being hauled back to the vessel being towed since the person on the tube appears to be pulling on the tow line and the person at the stern of the boat appears to adjusting her position to haul the tow line.  Therefore no violation of any law exists.
The second photo shows a stationary boat with two people floating on a tube.  PFDs are not required to be worn, neither is an observer required when floating on a tube.
Based on the photographic evidence you presented there are NO violations of the law.

Under "Required Equipment", page 28:

Each person being towed behind a vessel must wear a USCG-approved life jacket.


(Above italics theirs).

Now we start with a minimum of five violations!

Shocked
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:03 am

It's-Not-News Hawk wrote:
Under "Required Equipment", page 28:

Each person being towed behind a vessel must wear a USCG-approved life jacket.
Now we start with a minimum of five violations!

Interesting counselor, but Page 28 under required equipment of a boating guide is NOT the law...the Law, as written, is found in the RSAs and Chapter Saf-C 400 Watercraft Safety Rules, not boating guides.

There is NO RSA dealing with requirements for assisting disabled boaters.  The ONLY reference is listed under Chapter Saf-C 400 Watercraft Safety Rules and it addresses a good Samaritan's responsibility to come to the aid of another boater involved in an "accident or other casualty" and their indemnity from liability.


Saf-C 404.07  Accident Assistance.
         (a)  In the event of a collision, accident or other casualty involving a vessel subject to this chapter, the operator, if he or she can do so without serious danger to his or her own vessel or persons aboard, shall render such assistance as shall be practicable and necessary to other persons affected by the collision, accident or casualty in order to save them from danger caused by the collision, accident or casualty.  The operator shall also give his or her name, address and identification of his or her vessel to any person injured, to the operator of any other vessel(s) involved and to the owner of any property damaged.
         (b)  Any person who complies with this section or who gratuitously and in good faith renders assistance at the scene of a vessel collision, accident or other casualty, without objection from any person assisted, shall not be liable for any action taken as a result of the rendering of assistance when he or she acted as any ordinary reasonably prudent person would have acted under the same or similar circumstances.

Regarding your misinterpretation of the law, there IS THIS in the RSAs
RSA 270-D-1 Definitions:
XIII. "Water skiing'' means a person being towed behind a moving motorboat on skis or on aquatic equipment designed for towing an aquaplane or any other device, including bare feet of a person, but excluding a person being towed on an inflatable tube or in another boat or motorboat.
That means your quote from page 28 of the boaters guide does NOT apply to a disabled boat under tow.

Given the evidence YOU presented there are ZERO violations of the law.
Return you NHMP hat, you're fired.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:52 am

So they're not waterskiing.

Rolling Eyes

Nobody's charging the towing boat with anything.

Rolling Eyes

I maintain that the children are being towed in a recreational mode, not unlike "wake-surfers", and were placed in danger by:

1) Not wearing PFDs
2) Not having sufficient observers.

And why I said "Let the judge sort this out".

pirat

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:08 pm

Well there you go then!  You have spoken!  The letter of the law be damned, It's-Not-News Hawk "Maintains it" so it must be so!

You have yet to provide THE LAW in the form of an RSA that backs up your claim and without an RSA that backs up you claim, there is NO VIOLATION of the LAW, PERIOD.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:39 am

obervantone wrote:Well there you go then!  You have spoken! The letter of the law be damned, It's-Not-News Hawk "Maintains it" so it must be so!  
It's the judge who has the last word.

king

As the NHMP officer, I have absolved myself of children "slipping through the cracks" and being lost through lack of common sense or carelessness.

sunny

obervantone wrote:You have yet to provide THE LAW in the form of an RSA that backs up your claim and without an RSA that backs up you claim, there is NO VIOLATION of the LAW, PERIOD.
Reading "THE LAW" puts me to sleep.

Sleep

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:11 pm

Never heard of "malicious prosecution" and its repercussions have you.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:40 am

obervantone wrote:Never heard of "malicious prosecution" and its repercussions have you.
Sure, but that's where the judge comes in to adjudicate law interpretations that are correct.

AFAIK, NHMP officers are exempt, unless they don't tell the truth in court.

Suspect

.





avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  WHL on Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:31 am

So far for a big weekend, the lake is very quiet. I know a lot of people already have their boats out but I had expected to see a little bit of traffic. We did see one person putting their boat in.
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  obervantone on Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:19 am

Wrong again!

Prosecutors who bring criminal cases without adequate justification may be sued for doing so, and may not be protected by prosecutorial immunity if the prosecutors' actions were egregious enough.

_________________
America is one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just for people who look or worship a certain way.
avatar
obervantone

Posts : 709
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-04-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:45 pm

WHL wrote:So far for a big weekend, the lake is very quiet.  I know a lot of people already have their boats out but I had expected to see a little bit of traffic.  We did see one person putting their boat in.  

Traffic picked up towards the end of the afternoon.

My neighbor's boat was taken to storage this afternoon.

(Although that's not "traffic").

What a Face

.
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  News Hawk on Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:47 pm

obervantone wrote:Wrong again!  

Prosecutors who bring criminal cases without adequate justification may be sued for doing so, and may not be protected by prosecutorial immunity if the prosecutors' actions were egregious enough.

With my NHMP hat, how am I a "prosecutor"?

In most states, a prosecutor should be a lawyer.

scratch
avatar
News Hawk

Posts : 7956
Reputation : 9
Join date : 2013-01-16
Location : Winnipesaukee & Florida

View user profile http://bwolfeboro.runboard.com/f2

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  WHL on Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:45 am

Yes, traffic did pick up in the afternoon. And I imagine today with the warmer day that we might also see some traffic. I know I wish our boats weren't put away for the winter but you can't wait forever!
avatar
WHL
Admin

Posts : 6036
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Any violations here?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum