Yo!—Speedboaters—How Many Swimmers?

 

 
The second photo is not deleted—but saved for my convenience—to enlarge the swimmers, after your comment(s).

Thirty views, and no comments from those who say "No" to daytime speed limits?
 
 
 
Here they are, at my camera's maximum zoom:
 

 
Actually, there were three of them: I failed to notice the third swimmer, who was almost to my shoreline, where these photos were taken.
 

Again I will say, swimmers should never swim in the middle of the lake without something so boaters can see them.

WHL wrote:Again I will say, swimmers should never swim in the middle of the lake without something so boaters can see them.

How about a clown mask of Bush.  

WHL wrote:Again I will say, swimmers should never swim in the middle of the lake without something so boaters can see them.

 
They're swimmers!
 
That's what swimmers do—and it's legal everywhere—even in the open ocean.
 
It's the Ocean-Racers that are required to "Maintain a Proper Watch".
 
Which, with their oversized boats, they can't do.
 

News Hawk wrote:

WHL wrote:Again I will say, swimmers should never swim in the middle of the lake without something so boaters can see them.

 
They're swimmers!
 
That's what swimmers do—and it's legal everywhere—even in the open ocean.
 
It's the Ocean-Racers that are required to "Maintain a Proper Watch".
 
Which, with their oversized boats, they can't do.
 

Please provide your specific data that shows I can't see over my bow? I can argue that you have a more obstructed views on your sail boat.

Stop posting your conclusions as fact because in actuality they are opinions by a delusional jackass.

Yes, swimmers can swim anywhere they want, but they are stupid if they swim in the middle without a boat or something with them that a boat can see. It is very hard to see a swimmer even with a boat that isn't an ocean racer.

News Hawk wrote:

WHL wrote:Again I will say, swimmers should never swim in the middle of the lake without something so boaters can see them.

 
They're swimmers!
 
That's what swimmers do—and it's legal everywhere—even in the open ocean.
 
It's the Ocean-Racers that are required to "Maintain a Proper Watch".
 
Which, with their oversized boats, they can't do.
 

Just out of idle curiosity, how many swimmers have been hit by a boat? Should we have an RSA that bans swimmers on the Lake? OR, should we have an RSA that bans boats?
I would think that anyone who swims in the Lake should know what precautions to take so that they are visible to boaters.

Exactly, Don. I don't know of many who have been hit. Most people are not stupid enough to swim out in the middle.

WHL wrote:Yes, swimmers can swim anywhere they want, but they are stupid if they swim in the middle without a boat or something with them that a boat can see. It is very hard to see a swimmer even with a boat that isn't an ocean racer.  

Thank you WHL.. Also NH, you have been asked numerous times on other forums but give your own version of a cryptic answer. Please enlighten us with your specific definition of what an "ocean racer" is?

You have called many of the donzi's that participate in the donzi poker run "ocean racers", however the majority of them do not exceed 18 feet and have less than a 2 foot draft. Far from an "ocean racing" design.

If you want to consider yourself an expert on the matter and spout off these outlandish "opinions" NOT FACTS. Please back up your claims with detailed facts, not just making random references to other opinions and forum remarks.


BTW: yes swimmers can swim wherever they wish. However people must take responsibility for their actions. I would never let my kids go trick or treating down the center of a busy road knocking on windshields even if pedestrians do have the right of way.

WHL wrote:"...It is very hard to see a swimmer even with a boat that isn't an ocean racer..."  

Jet-Skis and Bass Boats face directly forward, and have little to distract the person at the helm.
 
At 45-MPH, it would be especially difficult to see a swimmer—especially as my photo was taken from a motionless point—and at maximum zoom.
 
As to Ocean-Racers, the cheapest Donzi would be expected to be among the more common models; however, I've seen some monsters that have NO business on the USCG's "Protected Waters", such as Lake Winnipesaukee.
 

Donzel wrote:Just out of idle curiosity, how many swimmers have been hit by a boat?  Should we have an RSA that bans swimmers on the Lake? OR, should we have an RSA that bans boats?

 
Some actress on vacation from Britain was beheaded by a propeller, but that's the only instance I know of off-hand. I'll check with Missouri's excellent Marine Patrol reporting later to find a few.
 
Most "swimmers", such as those in my photo are kids. The earlier adult "swimmer" was voluntarily "abandoned" by the ski boat while training a young water skier from the water.
 
This is not a rare occurrence!
 
Every water skier eventually becomes a "swimmer" at one time or another.
 
BTW: The Grunter reported that I was struck by an outboard motor!
 

Donzel wrote:I would think that anyone who swims in the Lake should know what precautions to take so that they are visible to boaters.

 
You would think so, but there they were.
 
 
 
Trick-or-Treaters are "Pedestrians"?

So what are these? (Who were out yesterday in some nasty chop).
 

 
Your Ocean-Racer "sight-picture"—once again.
 
(Summa-Humma on Lake Winnipesaukee).
 

I think that you are worrying yourself sick over nothing.

News Hawk wrote:
 
As to Ocean-Racers, the cheapest Donzi would be expected to be among the more common models; however, I've seen some monsters that have NO business on the USCG's "Protected Waters", such as Lake Winnipesaukee.

So your definition of Ocean Racers: is a cost opinion of Donzi's and what you consider "monsters".

Please confirm this is your definition of Ocean Racer. A cost factor of common models of a brand and your opinion of a factious scary creature in horror movies and children's books.

Please also provide data that I am unable to see a swimmer at 45 mph in my boat. I didn't see that in your response either.

So we have an actress in Britain being taken out by a boat prop, I'm not sure what that has to do with boat size. Couldn't a small boat do the same damage?

It seems to me that the bored people on the lake will find something to complain about to bring meaning to their lives.

And on the swimmers, I think we should call winfabs and raise this as a concern ( as stated by news hawk ) and create legislation that says you need to swim with 4 or more people and wear a flag that would allow boats from kayaks to the Mt Washington to see them from a distance of 1500 ft ( 150ft rule x10).

Does anyone know how to contact a winfabs rep and can they message me?

Well said APSound... Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.

BTW love the screen name!

News Hawk makes a good point with his sight line in the above pic. So why, more often than not, is there a performance boat involved when there's a deadly boating accident?  There's the Hartman/Littlefield accident, the Blizzard accident, the accident involving that Goodhue-Hawkins boat and others on our lake alone. Then there's of course the infamous Long Lake accident involving a boat named No Patience. One can understand how people on Winnpesaukee have so little respect (no patience if you will) for these craft and it tends to extend to their owners.
  The good news: I see fewer and fewer of these obnoxious boats on the lake every year, this year especially. Are they getting the message? A friend sent me some posts from one of the offshore racing forums where some of these irritating boaters freely admit that they now avoid our lake. Good riddance. We are seeing more and more pontoon boats where we live. They drive by quietly and don't seem to be screaming "look at me, look at me, aren't I cool...I'm fast, loud and obnoxious". I think people are buying more civilized boats because why, if there's a speed limit of 45 MPH, would you buy a boat that goes 80 MPH and with its obnoxious roar at that speed calls attention to the fact that it is breaking the law.

  The lake reached its nadir about 5 to 6 years ago and has been improving ever since. My family is so much happier boating on the lake than they've been in years. And I've never seen Gilford so busy as this summer hence no big blow to the economy; perhaps for every performance boat that left 2 other more family oriented boats came back.

Thanks, I was on another forum but never posted as the opinions were slanted towards removing freedoms. Unfortunately that is here too.

Live free or d........., oh wait, that's not allowed on the lake. "Live free as long as its by others rules ". I wonder what the flag will look like , maybe three people, holding hands and screaming at a court house to restrict others. ;-)

Amy B wrote:News Hawk makes a good point with his sight line in the above pic. So why, more often than not, is there a performance boat involved when there's a deadly boating accident?  There's the Hartman/Littlefield accident, the Blizzard accident, the accident involving that Goodhue-Hawkins boat and others on our lake alone. Then there's of course the infamous Long Lake accident involving a boat named No Patience. One can understand how people on Winnpesaukee have so little respect (no patience if you will) for these craft and it tends to extend to their owners.
  The good news: I see fewer and fewer of these obnoxious boats on the lake every year, this year especially. Are they getting the message? A friend sent me some posts from one of the offshore racing forums where some of these irritating boaters freely admit that they now avoid our lake. Good riddance. We are seeing more and more pontoon boats where we live. They drive by quietly and don't seem to be screaming "look at me, look at me, aren't I cool...I'm fast, loud and obnoxious". I think people are buying more civilized boats because why, if there's a speed limit of 45 MPH, would you buy a boat that goes 80 MPH and with its obnoxious roar at that speed calls attention to the fact that it is breaking the law.

  The lake reached its nadir about 5 to 6 years ago and has been improving ever since. My family is so much happier boating on the lake than they've been in years. And I've never seen Gilford so busy as this summer hence no big blow to the economy; perhaps for every performance boat that left 2 other more family oriented boats came back.

Oh my god... You must be smoking the same thing as News Hawk... Where do you get your facts to back these outlandish claims up..? I really wish people would talk to the experts before listing unsubstantiated conclusions.... Wow where do we start:

News Hawks sight line has no significance. He adds a boat and from a far distance draws a line that he thinks the person is looking at? Yup this is evidence......LOL... Ever here of peripheral vision? Also when plaining off in any boat the bow goes up. It is the responsibility of every captain to know what is in front of him before doing so which is what this captain clearly did. I guess he did not anticipate someone photoshopping a kayak or canoe. He really should look out for those..  

You ask why is it this type of boat involved in these accidents................. Well that is because you only mentioned them. Talk to the Marine Patrol and they will tell you that these are the most well known accidents because of alcohol and the media frenzie surrounding them, but are the smallest % of boats involved in accidents. They make good stories. Period. Funny you don't mention the two bowriders that collided in Moultonboro two years ago where people were injured and kids taken to the hospital............ Oh that's right it wouldn't help with your agenda. So to recap of the 4 accidents you described 3 alcohol were involved (but don't let that get in the way) and one was operator inexperience and error. This also has happened with pilots of aircraft (operator error) so maybe we should put a speed limit on them too.

You have seen fewer and fewer because of the economy and the speed limit. It costs a lot of money to fill the tanks. Money that has gone elsewhere. According to the MP (those charged with monitoring and protecting the lake) the number of NH Registrations are significantly down from their highs in 2004. More in line with what they were in the early 90's. Even after your precious speed limit it has not caused a draw for more boaters as the Winnfabs claim would happen.. OOOPs.. What could have gone wrong? Everything they said was based on facts and data.... Oh wait.................... It wasn't...  

According to the Marine Trades Association the boat sales are steady (luckily) but due to only selling pontoon and what you would classify as family cruisers they have to sell more to make up for their losses. Only two marinas claim the speed limit has helped their business however their sales numbers are much lower as well. But why let facts and numbers get in the way. As long as you and your family "feel" happier that is all that matters... And that must be a fact that should affect everyone on the lake...

What a crock!

I do believe that facts can be twisted and unfortunately people read the twisted facts and run with it.

I was in the broads today, navigating the chop brought on by the wind when I saw a kayak in the distance. The only way I saw her was her sunglasses reflected the sun. The kayak was black, the life jacket was dark blue.

If I didn't see the reflection, I could have easily missed this one kayak (in open water, in a water color kayak and clothes) and run into her. Who's fault is that , I was traveling at 30mph, had 3 adults, sober, a boating certificate and nobody saw her. I would have been at fault even though she took no action to be visible.

Two other boats near us, missed her by 100 ft or less. We slowed and got close enough to her to let her know that she was hard to see and might be in danger. Her reply, its the kayakers that own the lake.

My point is, there are many reasons that can lead to an accident and most are around self awareness such as, not drinking while boating, going at a safe speed for the conditions, being aware of your surroundings and making yourself visible to others. Its hard enough to pay at tension to what you can see, its hard to anticipate what you can't.


Blame can be applied to anyone. The only reason these people are crying out on the safety angle it it works. The reality is they want to restrict others to make "their lake" into the way they want it. They pull on the heart strings of others to do so.

My kids are 14 and 10 and I teach them safety and awareness so they can stay out of harms way. They know not to swim in dark water in dark clothes alone in the middle of the lake as they wouldn't be visible to others. I refuse to teach them the lesson of, its your right so go do it even if it will enable others to hurt you by accident.

Its like getting a gray chair, gray clothes and sitting in the road, when you get hit by a car, its the cars fault. No, its yours for putting yourself in harms way.

Reminds me of the bill in the state legislature. Weren't they trying to require swimmers to wear red bathing caps?? That was such a joke.

Welcome APSound!

Thanks WHL,

This is tongue in cheek, I hope the " restrict everyone" radicals see that we could restrict many things to make the world safer to those who want to stand in the path of harm. But is that the right path? I don't think so.

NO because however many rules and regulations and laws there are, things still happen. When will they learn that they can't prevent everything.

They won't until it is CT where there is no snowmobile riding, no atv, and an income tax required to manage the laws that self appointed do gooders asked for.

Then they will shift the complaints to taxes and somehow blame the lack of "race boats" and "gas revenue" as the key driver to less revenue.

Bad fun people, bad!!!

WHL wrote:When will they learn that they can't prevent everything.  

When there aren't any kids around?

I was just reminded by a family member that we saw the same bunch swimming the same route last season!

Amy B wrote:"...The lake reached its nadir about 5 to 6 years ago and has been improving ever since. My family is so much happier boating on the lake than they've been in years. And I've never seen Gilford so busy as this summer hence no big blow to the economy; perhaps for every performance boat that left 2 other more family oriented boats came back..."

Even with a lousy season of chill and rain, every cottage on my shoreline is occupied—many that went unrented in previous years are now full of kids.

 Yes, this makes for more newbies on the water, but they're going 30-MPH—and not 80.

I'd record more of the usual speed-demons whom the NHMP have given a "pass"—but this season, I have a full calendar of carpentry, windfall-clearing, and painting to get done.

Like it or not the lake is at a better place than a few years ago. Despite warnings from from the fast and furious, the lake's region economy is thriving. "Live Free or Die" was hijacked by a minority of NH citizens to justify self absorbed narcissism. Growing up in NH I learned that Live Free or Die meant being self sufficient and a good neighbor who could be counted on and would not behave in a manner that annoyed or disturbed my neighbors. Thankfully most of the nut case legislators in Concord who espoused the former and made NH a national joke were turned loose after the last election.