Labor Day Weekend on the Lake...

Another of my favorite ploys was when speaker O'Brien replaced those on the Transportation Committee who did not make it to the vote with his hand picked "replacement" who voted as he directed against the sl. But it didn't do any good when it came to a full legislative vote. You can bully and badger a small committee but not the whole legislature.

But of course you lost because the pro sl crowd cheated. What a baby. "Mommy, they don't play fair".

Amy B wrote:Another of my favorite ploys was when speaker O'Brien replaced those on the Transportation Committee who did not make it to the vote with his hand picked "replacement" who voted as he directed against the sl. But it didn't do any good when it came to a full legislative vote. You can bully and badger a small committee but not the whole legislature.

But of course you lost because the pro sl crowd cheated.  What a baby. "Mommy, they don't play fair".

I actually did not appreciate this either. However it is upsetting that so many seats in these committees are vacant so often.

Did you want to ignore all the points above? Or did you have any original thoughts on the matter?

Sure, lets start with A-D. They're not true. Show me the "proof" you're always demanding. You're the one insisting on presenting facts. And given a few of today's posts your credibility has been called into question on several issues.

A. House database. Provided by one of the Reps. emails.
B. Sandy H. submitted the same Petition (you can compare it is public record now) to the Senate Transportation Committee then again to the House. The bill was amended if you recall as a compromise to limit the broads to 55 mph. However the same petition was submitted saying in her testimony (I was there and I hope you were to) saying these were people against "this bill". How can that be?
C. Rep. Guy Comtois spoke in the House (again public record) that he was threatened that if he voted in anyway to repeal that this SL supporter would "ruin his business" and "make sure he was never reelected no matter what district he ran in".
D. The same list submitted at the committee hearings is the same one submitted way back for HB 464. As an example: The Woodshed restaurant. Friends of mine owned it and I know the new ones. Both confirmed they never supported it nor did they know their name was on the list. You can go through the list and see many names of businesses right on 25 that are out of business. Rusty Mclear's tenants have told us that he pressured them into listing their names or were just added by him without their knowledge.


Again dirty politics. Good for you they worked. But it doesn't make it right.

sumrluvr wrote:Our attempt to ask those on boating forums was to solicit actual "boaters" who have a knowledge of boating and marine activities. Why not get those .

Your attempt was pretty shady. Get those who own loud fast boats to help you preserve your "right" to be loud and fast on Winnipesaukee. You don't think someone couldn't see through such transparency? Again....you are a phony.

sumrluvr wrote:A. House database. Provided by one of the Reps. emails.
B. Sandy H. submitted the same Petition (you can compare it is public record now) to the Senate Transportation Committee then again to the House. The bill was amended if you recall as a compromise to limit the broads to 55 mph. However the same petition was submitted saying in her testimony (I was there and I hope you were to) saying these were people against "this bill". How can that be?
C. Rep. Guy Comtois spoke in the House (again public record) that he was threatened that if he voted in anyway to repeal that this SL supporter would "ruin his business" and "make sure he was never reelected no matter what district he ran in".
D. The same list submitted at the committee hearings is the same one submitted way back for HB 464. As an example: The Woodshed restaurant. Friends of mine owned it and I know the new ones. Both confirmed they never supported it nor did they know their name was on the list. You can go through the list and see many names of businesses right on 25 that are out of business. Rusty Mclear's tenants have told us that he pressured them into listing their names or were just added by him without their knowledge.


Again dirty politics. Good for you they worked. But it doesn't make it right.

I see no proof here at all, only your word, which, sorry, I can't take at face value. Show us the actual documentation, not just a bunch of heresay. And as far a C goes, who was this person and so sorry I was not able to better police him.

Amy B wrote:

sumrluvr wrote:A. House database. Provided by one of the Reps. emails.
B. Sandy H. submitted the same Petition (you can compare it is public record now) to the Senate Transportation Committee then again to the House. The bill was amended if you recall as a compromise to limit the broads to 55 mph. However the same petition was submitted saying in her testimony (I was there and I hope you were to) saying these were people against "this bill". How can that be?
C. Rep. Guy Comtois spoke in the House (again public record) that he was threatened that if he voted in anyway to repeal that this SL supporter would "ruin his business" and "make sure he was never reelected no matter what district he ran in".
D. The same list submitted at the committee hearings is the same one submitted way back for HB 464. As an example: The Woodshed restaurant. Friends of mine owned it and I know the new ones. Both confirmed they never supported it nor did they know their name was on the list. You can go through the list and see many names of businesses right on 25 that are out of business. Rusty Mclear's tenants have told us that he pressured them into listing their names or were just added by him without their knowledge.


Again dirty politics. Good for you they worked. But it doesn't make it right.


Your attempt was pretty shady. Get those who own loud fast boats to help you preserve your "right" to be loud and fast on Winnipesaukee. You don't think someone couldn't see through such transparency? Again....you are a phony..


Amy B

  I see no proof here at all, only your word, which, sorry, I can't take at face value. Show us the actual documentation, not just a bunch of heresay. And as far a C goes, who was this person and so sorry I was not able to better police him.

The attempt was not shady. it was a grass roots campaign that was honest and transparent. It was also posted on multiple forums for antique boating, boating safety organizations and other recreational pages (snowmobiling, hiking etc) but of course this does not matter to you. You only choose the one from OSO.

Phony is the Winnfabs claiming safety and congestion as the issue.

Registrations down to 1990's numbers and the Dept. of Safety not being able to complete or give their "safety data" based on a study asked for by the Winnfabs.

Phony is someone who is a coward behind a keyboard. I have mentioned on many occasions that I would be happy to debate you and your cronies publically. Once you were ever asked by Sam Adams radio show host but you declined claiming you were scared that people who oppose the SL would harass you.  People know who I am.. I don't hide.

Also hearsay? Negative. Try Public Record. You can request the petitions and review the committee evidence. I have.. You can as well.

The List of businesses again is now part of public record but can also be found in the archives at the FATP. Sorry I am working and don't have the time to do your research but why would you for it doesn't support your arguments?

So you are in charge of policing SL supporters then? Can you also find out who called my home and scared my 3 year old son? That sounds like something that people in "the right" would do.

I am there in the summers and would be happy to discuss this in person if you like.

WHL wrote:Isn't it strange that lobbyists have power over the MP

Lobbyists do not have power over the Marine Patrol, but they do have the ability to work on behalf of their employer, in this case WinnFABS, to influence legislators who ultimately ignored the findings and testimony of the Marine Patrol and passed the law.  One lawmaker coined the phrase that Speed Limits on Lake Winnipesaukee is a "solution in search of a problem".  Was an accurate statement then and it continues to be now.

One of the more interesting aspects of this law is that because of it the average speed on the lake has undoubtedly increased not decreased.  

If you recall from the Marine Patrol's study of speed on the lake the average speed prior to the law taking effect was in the low to mid 20's.  Now the state has put up a sign that says Speed Limit 45.  Just like on the roadways when a slow driver finds he or she is driving slower than the speed limit, they speed up.  

I'd love to see a study of speed today.  Like my Mother always said, and it now applies to speed limit advocates, be careful what you wish for because you just might get it!

Lobbyists are a fact of life in politics.  Those with money get to use them to influence what they want and this was no different.  What was different in this case is that the people providing the money and misdirecting attention from the problem at hand, a drunk boater leaving an establishment after an afternoon and evening of drinking and killing a man, and successfully redirected it to a debate over speed.  Not because the drunk boater was traveling fast but because of the brand of his boat.  A Baja, a high performance brand, so the problem must be speed.  Never mind what the Marine Patrol says,

Again my posts this week were in response to a post on offshoreonly where sl supporter(s) were specifically targeted to be annoyed. And as I said, no wonder your group has a pr problem. And with that kind of mentality, who would voluntarily disclose their address. You poor thing...what a horrible phone call it must have been if it really happened. No one condones such tactics. There were sl supporters who were specifically threatened and the police called.   I rest my case. Stop acting like such a poor victim. You have tried to dig up any real/fabricated/imagined transgression regarding how the sl was enacted. You conveniently omitted or denied your own particular skeletons in the closet. You have repeatedly ignored that it was far more than simply speed at issue.
  Winni's reputation...blackened by you, not all our so called scare tactics...is on the mend.  We'll have more economic data in the months to come as proof that a sl did nothing to damage the economy. You lost, and quite badly, and ...fair and square.

Fair and Square? far from it... Politically fair yes.. I have applauded your group for manipulating the system and using your lobbyists to drive a vote in your favor.

Whether there is a law in place now or in the future, how it came about was very unfortunate. It is the law now but there have been laws, even federally constitutional amendments that have been changed over time.

It is fine that you want to sweep the overwhelming facts of what has transpired under the carpet. My skeletons have been discussed and explained at length and proven to be either fabricated or taken out of context. But the truth is this isn't about me as much as you would like it to be. It is about the issues.

We (SBONH) are still working to improve the lake. The winnfabs are defunct.

You can continue to try to re-write history but we will always be here to correct your fabrications.

I will be back in June. I will await your invitation to meet and discuss. Until then you can hide behind your keyboard.

With that its Friday and I'm off to the boat. Aqua water with 80 degree breezes are calling me.  

Pirate ship tomorrow with the family.. Life is good.

sumrluvr wrote:
You can continue to try to re-write history but we will always be here to correct your fabrications.

Ditto...and I got a pretty good start today, specifically involving whether someone from Nashua is not qualified to weigh in yet people from all over the country are; yet local legislators are not so qualified. We were reminded of O'Brien's dirty little trick. And we were reminded of just what the polls showed. Enjoy your weekend.

obervantone wrote:

WHL wrote:Isn't it strange that lobbyists have power over the MP

Lobbyists do not have power over the Marine Patrol, but they do have the ability to work on behalf of their employer, in this case WinnFABS, to influence legislators who ultimately ignored the findings and testimony of the Marine Patrol and passed the law.  One lawmaker coined the phrase that Speed Limits on Lake Winnipesaukee is a "solution in search of a problem".  Was an accurate statement then and it continues to be now.

One of the more interesting aspects of this law is that because of it the average speed on the lake has undoubtedly increased not decreased.  

If you recall from the Marine Patrol's study of speed on the lake the average speed prior to the law taking effect was in the low to mid 20's.  Now the state has put up a sign that says Speed Limit 45.  Just like on the roadways when a slow driver finds he or she is driving slower than the speed limit, they speed up.  

I'd love to see a study of speed today.  Like my Mother always said, and it now applies to speed limit advocates, be careful what you wish for because you just might get it!

Lobbyists are a fact of life in politics.  Those with money get to use them to influence what they want and this was no different.  What was different in this case is that the people providing the money and misdirecting attention from the problem at hand, a drunk boater leaving an establishment after an afternoon and evening of drinking and killing a man, and successfully redirected it to a debate over speed.  Not because the drunk boater was traveling fast but because of the brand of his boat.  A Baja, a high performance brand, so the problem must be speed.  Never mind what the Marine Patrol says,

I understand how lobbyists work, I just meant ultimately the MP has to do something they do not believe in because the Lobbyists convinced the politicians that the speed limit was warranted. I know that politicians can't know a lot about everything, but since they ask for the job, it seems they should find some facts out for themselves. Instead I think they rely on the Lobbyist to do their job for them. My one and only time that I helped create a new law in the state of NH, the Lobbyists took right over in the end despite endless hearings. And the Lobbyists even admitted he didn't have the problem where he lived, so how could he be trying to convince other what to do if he didn't personally know much about it? THe thing is, I think he did have the problem in his town, he just didn't know it.

sumrluvr wrote:
I will be back in June. I will await your invitation to meet and discuss. Until then you can hide behind your keyboard.

Oh yes, I'd just love to meet and discuss. Then you might even know my name and where I lived and you could organize your friends to teach me a lesson similar to the one inflicted on NH, this topic being the catalyst for our present discussion. So glad you're not one to hide behind a keyboard. Aren't you quite the man of integrity and high moral character.

Amy B wrote:"...In part the MP's response was fueled by the culture of speed espoused by the late Dave Barrett..."

Former NHMP Director, for those who don't know.

Another biker, BTW.

Y'know, one who takes real risks for thrills, with a family to bear the losses.

Nice video News hawk! You should use one user name so that we can follow you better. Thanks for the post, please invest in better equipment so that we can see the boats that are that far away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1am31TT4hDI

Thanks!

APSound wrote:Nice video News hawk! You should use one user name so that we can follow you better.

Like I need "following"?

      

APSound wrote:"...please invest in better equipment so that we can see the boats that are that far away..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1am31TT4hDI

Thanks!

[/quote]

"Far away" was likely intended by Winnipesaukee's anti-social boating organizers.

Suppose one of you collided with one another—or an innocent someone—on my shore?

At FATP, you'd NEVER hear the end of it!

BTW—found on the Internet—more anti-social behavior:

  

"...I don’t want to knock anyone for drinking or doing drugs, but I also do not want weed smoke blown in my face in a bar or restaurant making me high or my family high when we do not want to be high is going to start something nobody wants to see happen. Got that junkies?

.

News Hawk wrote:"Far away" was likely intended by Winnipesaukee's anti-social boating organizers.

Suppose one of you collided with one another—or an innocent someone—on my shore?

Far Away from YOUR SHORE?   And yet you are still complaining.   

Amy B wrote:

sumrluvr wrote:Our attempt to ask those on boating forums was to solicit actual "boaters" who have a knowledge of boating and marine activities. Why not get those .

Your attempt was pretty shady. Get those who own loud fast boats to help you preserve your "right" to be loud and fast on Winnipesaukee. You don't think someone couldn't see through such transparency? Again....you are a phony.

You expected Purity from SBONH?

  

obervantone wrote:

News Hawk wrote:"Far away" was likely intended by Winnipesaukee's anti-social boating organizers.

Suppose one of you collided with one another—or an innocent someone—on my shore?

Far Away from YOUR SHORE?   And yet you are still complaining.  

Sorry, if you got confused.

"MY shore" includes about 20 families—aside from renters/visitors—only one of whom would consider you are posing no hazards with your racing-around Winter Harbor.

The opposite shore was clearly endangered by immature behavior in a congested area of family camps—behavior that belongs on the ocean.

  


.

APSound wrote:Thanks for the post, please invest in better equipment so that we can see the boats that are that far away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1am31TT4hDI

Thanks!

The race was at a "considered" distance that kept your bow numbers from being documented by this video.

If you want some "fame"—however brief it may be—you'll have to design a race course that's closer to my camera.

 We've all seen the video and it is clear to everyone that it was far from a race.  Intersting that they are too far for you to identify, but close enough that you could smell their "farts".

As I explained in your "It's Legal" thread, there is a simple solution if you care to pursue it.

Someone please wake me ONLY if News Hawk becomes COHERENT!  

obervantone wrote:Someone please wake me ONLY if News Hawk becomes COHERENT!  

I awakened you?  Then I must have become suddenly coherent!

Ocean-Racers don't stink-up the air on Lake Winnipesaukee?



http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/stinkpot



.

Amy B wrote:Again my posts this week were in response to a post on offshoreonly where sl supporter(s) were specifically targeted to be annoyed. And as I said, no wonder your group has a pr problem. And with that kind of mentality, who would voluntarily disclose their address. You poor thing...what a horrible phone call it must have been if it really happened. No one condones such tactics. There were sl supporters who were specifically threatened and the police called.   I rest my case. Stop acting like such a poor victim. You have tried to dig up any real/fabricated/imagined transgression regarding how the sl was enacted. You conveniently omitted or denied your own particular skeletons in the closet. You have repeatedly ignored that it was far more than simply speed at issue.
  Winni's reputation...blackened by you, not all our so called scare tactics...is on the mend.  We'll have more economic data in the months to come as proof that a sl did nothing to damage the economy. You lost, and quite badly, and ...fair and square.

I was intrigued by a post on another Winnipesaukee forum (see below) regarding kayaking. We know a certain SL supporter was targeted to be harrassed/annoyed and this was justified by SBONH leadership "because it was legal". Said leadership, or lack thereof, is cogently summarized by the post in yesterday's FATP.  I would say this SBONH member, jmen24, hit it right out of the park. Below is the post.

"This has nothing to do with visibility, it's about revenge! WINNFABS pushed the speed limit and SBONH members want to take something away from them (apparently all of WINNFABS members are kayakers and none of them powerboat), so they grab on to every chance they get to impose a stupid idea that will take away some enjoyment of the lake for someone else.

As a founding member of SBONH (that happens to only own paddle craft), I am embarrassed by this behavior!

While the organization is not pushing (or sponsoring) these ideas, they are certainly not coming out against them. The talk on the subject is, what the loopholes are and how to get something like this flag idea passed so NH will be the only state in the country to impose this type of requirement on paddle craft.

For a group that was founded to fight the restriction of THEIR liberties, they certainly don't mind (backdoor) spearheading the removal of someone else's.

If SBONH is alive and well, I would like to know where the meetings are being held so that the general membership can have a say in what the organization works on, because they are certainly not happening on the members forum.

The mindset of constantly splitting a majority into smaller pieces is TOXIC THINKING and extends far beyond how you enjoy floating on water!

Keep this up and soon we will only be allowed to look at water!

JeffK, hit it right, if you paddle in the middle of a congested area, you get what you get with an idea like that."

Amy,

Why so angry?? Life is too short. There is a speed limit that is rarely broken (and difficult to enforce). You won  

Well, I'm gonna have a great weekend on the lake this weekend and next! See some of you out there    

NH- you should go into hiding next Wed so you will not have to deal with "those" summer people!