Town News
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News Hawk
fshnski
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Re: Town News
Anti Federalist Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:56 am
My understanding of the case you posted, is that it only became a state issue when the tax system and town became involved.News Buzzard wrote:Not according to the NH Supreme Court, as relayed by the attorney for the developer of Winnipesaukee Dr. I wish it was that simple.Anti Federalist wrote:If the owners of the property that use the road want it improved, let them finance it.
Simple, really.
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Re: Town News
Achigan Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:01 am
If I understand this correctly, the developer is afraid that he will end up with paying all the cost of the road repair because of the NH supreme court ruling on another case. So if a warrant article is passed that states the town tax payers will foot the bill, the developer might get charged anyway?????
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Re: Town News
News Buzzard Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:39 am
Most, if not all, of the families on Winnipesaukee Dr and Knights Pond Rd (a small cul-de sac off Winnipesaukee Dr) petitioned the Town to lay out and accept the roads as town roads in accordance with State RSA 231:28:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xx/231/231-28.htm
The law says that the town can accept the roads and fix them with funding from a betterment assessment on the property owners. The developer of Winnipesaukee Dr (Estates) sent an attorney, Randy Walker, to the public hearing at the BOS meeting, 11/20/13, and he cited a prior case, Embassy Estates on Wolfeboro Neck, where the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the residents. It said, according to Walker, that the Town had to accept and lay out the road and the residents didn't have to pay the betterment assessment for the repair. It appeared, by Mr Walker's statement, that the developer of Winnipesaukee Dr does not want to pay the betterment assessment, while all of the residents have expressed a willingness to do so. ($20 thousand + per property) I should also note that the repairs were never done at Embassy Estates on Wolfeboro Neck, according to Dave Ford.
The BOS voted to accept and lay out Winnipesaukee Dr and Knights Pond Rd as town roads on 11/20/13, and I expect that all of this may result in a Warrant Article for the repair of the roads, but I have yet to see anywhere that the town can be forced to do the repair if the Warrant Article is voted down.
I hope this explanation clears things up a little bit.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xx/231/231-28.htm
The law says that the town can accept the roads and fix them with funding from a betterment assessment on the property owners. The developer of Winnipesaukee Dr (Estates) sent an attorney, Randy Walker, to the public hearing at the BOS meeting, 11/20/13, and he cited a prior case, Embassy Estates on Wolfeboro Neck, where the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the residents. It said, according to Walker, that the Town had to accept and lay out the road and the residents didn't have to pay the betterment assessment for the repair. It appeared, by Mr Walker's statement, that the developer of Winnipesaukee Dr does not want to pay the betterment assessment, while all of the residents have expressed a willingness to do so. ($20 thousand + per property) I should also note that the repairs were never done at Embassy Estates on Wolfeboro Neck, according to Dave Ford.
The BOS voted to accept and lay out Winnipesaukee Dr and Knights Pond Rd as town roads on 11/20/13, and I expect that all of this may result in a Warrant Article for the repair of the roads, but I have yet to see anywhere that the town can be forced to do the repair if the Warrant Article is voted down.
I hope this explanation clears things up a little bit.
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Re: Town News
Achigan Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:47 am
Got it NB! Thanks a lot.
I don't think that there is any chance that a Warrant article will be passed, do you?
I don't think that there is any chance that a Warrant article will be passed, do you?
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Re: Town News
News Buzzard Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:02 am
I do not. The price tag on the repair came in at little over $1.1 million, which would require a 60% approval by the voters.Achigan wrote:Got it NB! Thanks a lot.
I don't think that there is any chance that a Warrant article will be passed, do you?
The residents of that community have a very real problem, but we have a very long list of roads to be repaired, so I don't think it would be fair to the rest of the community to jump Winnipesaukee Dr and Knights Pond La to the top of the list.
There are other areas that could be investigated, like an agreed upon compromise on a betterment assessment for a smaller and cheaper scope of repair that would be paid for by the property owners, and I hope something like that happens before our Town Vote next year.
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Re: Town News
fshnski Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:08 am
Why can't they go to a bank if they need to borrow the money. The way I have always understood it is that if a private development wanted to have the town take over the maintenance of the private road they had to first bring the road up to minimum town standards. That is a completed road up to minimum town standards. Why would the town have anything to do with it until that step has been accomplished?
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Re: Town News
Achigan Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:10 am
fshnski wrote:Why can't they go to a bank if they need to borrow the money. The way I have always understood it is that if a private development wanted to have the town take over the maintenance of the private road they had to first bring the road up to minimum town standards. That is a completed road up to minimum town standards. Why would the town have anything to do with it until that step has been accomplished?
Because RSA 231:28 states that it can be done that way. Read the RSA.
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Re: Town News
Achigan Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:11 am
Thank you again. That was very well put.News Buzzard wrote:I do not. The price tag on the repair came in at little over $1.1 million, which would require a 60% approval by the voters.Achigan wrote:Got it NB! Thanks a lot.
I don't think that there is any chance that a Warrant article will be passed, do you?
The residents of that community have a very real problem, but we have a very long list of roads to be repaired, so I don't think it would be fair to the rest of the community to jump Winnipesaukee Dr and Knights Pond La to the top of the list.
There are other areas that could be investigated, like an agreed upon compromise on a betterment assessment for a smaller and cheaper scope of repair that would be paid for by the property owners, and I hope something like that happens before our Town Vote next year.
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I'm just trying to be a more informed Wolfeboro citizen.
fshnski Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:19 am
Don't you think it would be a good idea if someone tried to to help some of us, the less-gilfted intellectually, to understand the things that effect us?
I'll be the first to say that I don't understand legalese. The intent is to confuse us average citizens and it works very well, especially when it comes to this old fisherman.
Maybe one of you can help us understand the RSA?
After all … It's the law of the land!
I'll be the first to say that I don't understand legalese. The intent is to confuse us average citizens and it works very well, especially when it comes to this old fisherman.
Maybe one of you can help us understand the RSA?
After all … It's the law of the land!
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Re: Town News
Achigan Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:50 am
Here it is and what part don't you understand? Maybe NB can explain it better than me, but I do understand it now...thanks to NB.
231:28 Conditional Layout for Existing Private Rights-of-Way or Class VI Highways. – Whenever, pursuant to the provisions of this chapter, the selectmen receive a petition to lay out roads over existing private rights-of-way or to lay out a class V highway over an existing class VI highway and such private right-of-way or class VI highway does not conform to construction standards and requirements currently in effect in the town, the selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments as provided in this section and in RSA 231:29-33. Prior to commencement of conditional layout, however, a public hearing shall be held, written notice of which shall be given by the appropriate governing board to all owners of property abutting or served by the private right-of-way or class VI highway, at least 14 days before the hearing, at which hearing details of the proposed construction, reconstruction or repairs, and the estimated costs thereof shall be presented by the selectmen. Conditional layout proceedings may commence 10 days following the public hearing unless within that period a petition not to conditionally lay out said thoroughfare signed by a majority of the owners of property abutting or served by the existing private right-of-way or class VI highway is received by the selectmen. If a highway is so laid out, the selectmen may construct, reconstruct, repair or cause to be constructed, reconstructed or repaired such highways, streets, roads, or traveled ways to conform in every way with the highway or street construction standards and regulations previously established by the town. The betterment assessments shall be assessed under the provisions of RSA 231:29.
231:28 Conditional Layout for Existing Private Rights-of-Way or Class VI Highways. – Whenever, pursuant to the provisions of this chapter, the selectmen receive a petition to lay out roads over existing private rights-of-way or to lay out a class V highway over an existing class VI highway and such private right-of-way or class VI highway does not conform to construction standards and requirements currently in effect in the town, the selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments as provided in this section and in RSA 231:29-33. Prior to commencement of conditional layout, however, a public hearing shall be held, written notice of which shall be given by the appropriate governing board to all owners of property abutting or served by the private right-of-way or class VI highway, at least 14 days before the hearing, at which hearing details of the proposed construction, reconstruction or repairs, and the estimated costs thereof shall be presented by the selectmen. Conditional layout proceedings may commence 10 days following the public hearing unless within that period a petition not to conditionally lay out said thoroughfare signed by a majority of the owners of property abutting or served by the existing private right-of-way or class VI highway is received by the selectmen. If a highway is so laid out, the selectmen may construct, reconstruct, repair or cause to be constructed, reconstructed or repaired such highways, streets, roads, or traveled ways to conform in every way with the highway or street construction standards and regulations previously established by the town. The betterment assessments shall be assessed under the provisions of RSA 231:29.
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Re: Town News
What does this mean? Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:14 pm
selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments
What does this mean?- Guest
This was me.
fshnski Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:41 pm
What does this mean? wrote:selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments
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Re: Town News
News Buzzard Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:21 pm
That's exactly the way the state statutes are written, but the fly in the ointment is the Supreme Court case where they ruled against Wolfeboro in the Embassy Estates case. The Supreme Court said that the BOS could not refuse the resident's petition to make their development town roads, and they could not impose a betterment assessment on the community because the Town negligently signed off on the roads as being up to town specifications. The same thing happened with Winnipesaukee Estates. The Town signed off on the roads and released the bond money to the developer.fshnski wrote:Why can't they go to a bank if they need to borrow the money. The way I have always understood it is that if a private development wanted to have the town take over the maintenance of the private road they had to first bring the road up to minimum town standards. That is a completed road up to minimum town standards. Why would the town have anything to do with it until that step has been accomplished?
Last edited by News Buzzard on Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Town News
WHL Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:41 pm
The town made the mistake when they signed off on it. That never should have happened. I remember the Embassy Estates debacle.
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Re: Town News
fshnski Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:43 pm
Are you talking to me?News Buzzard wrote:That's exactly the way the state statutes are written, but the fly in the ointment is the Supreme Court case where they ruled against Wolfeboro in the Embassy Estates case. The Supreme Court said that the BOS could not refuse the resident's petition to make their development town roads, and they could not impose a betterment assessment on the community because the Town negligently signed off on the roads as being up to town specifications. The same thing happened with Winnipesaukee Estates. The Town signed off on the roads and released the bond money to the developer.fshnski wrote:Why can't they go to a bank if they need to borrow the money. The way I have always understood it is that if a private development wanted to have the town take over the maintenance of the private road they had to first bring the road up to minimum town standards. That is a completed road up to minimum town standards. Why would the town have anything to do with it until that step has been accomplished?
You're welcome, Achigan.
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Re: Town News
News Buzzard Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:01 pm
Thank you, and you're welcome!Achigan wrote:
Thank you again. That was very well put.
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Re: Town News
fshnski Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:11 pm
Might anybody know what this means?
"selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments"
"selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments"
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Re: Town News
Achigan Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:19 pm
Come on fsh, it means exactly what it says. However because of the Supreme Court case where they ruled against Wolfeboro in the Embassy Estates case, Wolfeboro tax payer's might have to pay for the betterment...which I doubt will ever happen.fshnski wrote:Might anybody know what this means?
"selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments"
Now lets move on about this topic.
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Re: Town News
fshnski Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:21 pm
I don't understand what this phrase means.fshnski wrote:Might anybody know what this means?
"selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments"
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Re: Town News
Achigan Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:26 pm
In the RSA that you took it out of it means that the residents of the development must pay for the betterment, HOWEVER, because of the supreme court case.......fshnski wrote:I don't understand what this phrase means.fshnski wrote:Might anybody know what this means?
"selectmen may conditionally lay out roads upon compliance with betterment assessments"
Now do you get it??
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Re: Town News
News Buzzard Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:35 pm
The only thing I might add is the word conditional might pertain to the 10 day period after the public hearing in which the petitioners can revoke their petition. After the 10 days is up, and no request for the revocation of the petition comes in, the road becomes a town road and it's full speed ahead with the reconstruction and betterment assessment on the property owners, according to the statutes. (and absent the Supreme Court ruling)
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Re: Town News
Achigan Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:24 pm
Thanks NB for all that you have done to explain this situation with the road. Also thanks to Bob Lemaire for bringing this up on his blog.News Buzzard wrote:The only thing I might add is the word conditional might pertain to the 10 day period after the public hearing in which the petitioners can revoke their petition. After the 10 days is up, and no request for the revocation of the petition comes in, the road becomes a town road and it's full speed ahead with the reconstruction and betterment assessment on the property owners, according to the statutes. (and absent the Supreme Court ruling)
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Re: Town News
News Buzzard Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:20 pm
My pleasure, Achigan, and it's true that Bob Lemaire had a good posting on it. He has also done some very good reporting on the sewer lawsuit.Achigan wrote:Thanks NB for all that you have done to explain this situation with the road. Also thanks to Bob Lemaire for bringing this up on his blog.
Happy Thanksgiving!
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