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A scandal worse than Watergate

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Post  fshnski Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:26 pm

This past weekend, a popular tabloid recited the litany of administration scandals and carried the following sensational headline: “Worse than Nixon!” Tabloids are tabloids, but it raises an interesting question: How does the Internal Revenue Service scandal compare to Watergate?

Forty years ago, the White House spokesman called the Watergate break-in a “third-rate burglary” of the offices of the Democratic National Committee. While it may have been third-rate, it was also a crime, committed in the pursuit of political power. It led to a cover-up that created a constitutional crisis and shook our faith in government. The question is whether, and to what extent, history has repeated itself.

Like 40 years ago, White House apologists today describe the targeting of conservative Americans by the IRS as a third-rate bureaucratic bungle, committed by low-level officials in Ohio. Like the Watergate break-in, it is a crime. Federal law makes it a felony to deprive Americans of the exercise of their constitutional rights under color of law. While the IRS has a duty to ensure tax-exempt organizations qualify for that treatment, it has an even greater duty to conduct itself lawfully and evenhandedly in the administration of all of its responsibilities. It failed those tests here. It targeted people on the basis of their constitutionally protected political affiliations and opinions. This is far worse than the burglary at the Watergate in Washington. This particular offense was directed at traditional, law-abiding Americans all over the country and involved chilling and widespread abuses of federal power.

Another important difference is that the Watergate burglars were not government employees. No government agency was implicated in the initial break-in. This time around, the misconduct is taking place in what may be the most powerful — and feared — government agency in the country. To ordinary Americans, it looks like the IRS spent taxpayer money to conduct a potentially criminal enterprise directed at the Americans who pay their salary. It was not only wrong, it was a betrayal of the public’s trust in government. At this stage, the IRS scandal is far more serious than the initial Watergate break-in.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/7/a-scandal-worse-than-watergate/#ixzz2Vqp12aXI

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Post  WHL Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:30 pm

I was watching Ken Langone (?) the co-founder of Home Depot on Cavuto and he was saying he just hopes the Republicans get some (guts) and don't just let this go. I couldn't agree more with him. He said they act like they are scared.
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Post  fshnski Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:19 pm

It is also clumsier, if that’s possible. The head of the IRS office responsible for the misconduct tried to get ahead of the report of the inspector general with a planted question-and-answer at a bar association meeting. There, she apologized for what she described as activities that were “wrong.” She then insisted to Congress that she had done nothing “wrong,” and then pleaded the Fifth Amendment. Her performance made Nixon’s plumbers look like surgeons.

Nevertheless, the Watergate scandal became a constitutional crisis not because of the break-in itself, but because of the White House cover-up and what that cover-up said about government and its accountability to the electorate. The IRS scandal starts with the operation of government itself, and what appears to be its total lack of accountability. Without accountability, our form of representative government cannot function. This scandal, therefore, requires a different analysis.

First, IRS officials knew exactly what they were doing. They did what politicians wanted them to do. Democratic campaigns and their allies targeted what they perceived as hostile (i.e., conservative) 501(c)(4) organizations and sought official action against them. For example, the IRS initiated a futile audit of Freedom’s Watch at the request of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. In an unprecedented and unwarranted abuse of power, the IRS then went after Freedom’s Watch’s donors. Nothing came of that, either. However, keeping conservatives on the defensive by systematically getting the IRS and other government agencies to target them was part of the political strategy of Democratic campaigns. Anyone remotely familiar with administrative process will hardly be surprised when an agency initiates on its own investigations of the kind requested by its political masters. The notion that the ethical lapse here was that of the agency itself, rather than of those filing the complaints and urging that action, is both cowardly and contemptible. Anyone remotely familiar with the IRS will know the policy had to come from Washington, not agents in Ohio.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/7/a-scandal-worse-than-watergate/#ixzz2VrHdXnUy
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Post  fshnski Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:21 pm

Second, Democrats have perfected a new strategy of pandering to public-sector unions for political gain. This strategy is to use taxpayer dollars to buy the political loyalty and support of public-sector employees, leaving fiscal policy to be set at a bargaining table with unelected bureaucrats on both sides. That one of those unions, the National Treasury Employees Association, should be headed by a rabidly anti-Tea Party former IRS agent should hardly be surprising. She adamantly opposes what she describes as “extreme” elements that favor cuts to the federal budget. She has made her role in the political process absolutely clear. When the new Republican Congress came to town, she had “news” for them: “While we will gladly work with anyone who will work with us, when we cannot we will go under, over, around or through those who will not work with us.”

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/7/a-scandal-worse-than-watergate/#ixzz2VrI70oNB
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Post  fshnski Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:22 pm

Third, the reaction of the White House to the news was telling. The bad news, of course, was not that the IRS targeting of conservatives had occurred — after all, liberals had pushed for it — but rather that it had been discovered. The press had been conquered, but no one apparently thought about an inspector general. The White House staff was in a tough spot. They had to protect the integrity of the inspector general’s investigation, or else they might get into trouble themselves. No one wants to be a John Dean these days. So they decided to keep the president, whose job it is “to take care that the laws be faithfully executed,” in the dark.

In the Watergate scandal, a Republican senator asked the now famous questions “What did the president know, and when did he know it?” The purpose of the questions, of course, was to determine the extent of the executive branch’s complicity in misconduct. This time, things are different. The executive branch itself apparently committed the misconduct. So perhaps the right question this time is, “What did the president not know, and why did he not know it?” The answers to those questions would speak volumes about the nature of this scandal.

There is a vast difference between Watergate and this scandal. Forty years ago, what was described as a cancer on the presidency and government itself was limited to a president and a close circle of advisers and aides. Today, the cancer has metastasized. It pervades an increasingly intrusive government in its relentless pursuit of political and economic power. There are those who believe that a political party can preside over that process and still not be held accountable. That is why they will insist it is not as bad as Watergate, and that is precisely why they are so wrong.


Warren L. Dean Jr. practices law in Washington, D.C., and is an adjunct professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/7/a-scandal-worse-than-watergate/#ixzz2VrIQY8xy
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Post  News Hawk Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:57 pm

Let's see:

The Treasury Department was headed by an American who didn't pay his Income Taxes?

scratch

The Treasury Department has a UNION?

Shocked
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Post  fshnski Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:16 pm

No response from the left?
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Post  News Buzzard Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:31 pm

There is no comparison between Watergate and the IRS targeting. The underlying issue with Watergate was a burglary, which is a felony, and the ensuing coverup that went all the way to the White House. The IRS targeting probe has no criminal basis and will wash out, just like Benghazi and the AP investigation.

There are 2 issues that I have found to be very troubling. The first is the lavish convention spending by the IRS. The folks at the IRS responsible for overseeing that should be disciplined, and the practice must stop.

The second serious issue is the amount of sexual assaults in the military. There should be prompt legislation from the congress to take the military commanders out of the investigations. Apparently, the old boys club is not working out too well when it comes to investigations of sexual assaults, and there should be separate prosecutors handling these cases.

All the rest of the nonsense is BS, and the idea of impeachment is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. All of these investigations, Issa and all, are just a Republican tool to obstruct Obama's second term, and is an overreach!
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Post  fshnski Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:57 pm

Don't change the subject.

I agree with Professor Dean.

"You can say the ski is green only so many times before even those that support you won't believe you. I can look at the sky with my own two eyes. It is blue".
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Post  News Hawk Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:48 am

News Buzzard wrote:"...There are 2 issues that I have found to be very troubling. The first is the lavish convention spending by the IRS. The folks at the IRS responsible for overseeing that should be disciplined, and the practice must stop..."

Oh yes, what a terrible outrage! It must be reined-in.

Rolling Eyes

News Buzzard wrote:"...All the rest of the nonsense is BS, and the idea of impeachment is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. All of these investigations, Issa and all, are just a Republican tool to obstruct Obama's second term, and is an overreach!

Benghazi is "nonsense/BS"?

With newly-adapting the ability to use the IRS and the NSA to control "minority voices", the outlook is indeed, "Gloomy".

However, Stalin would approve.

Suspect
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Post  WHL Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:17 am

I guess the murder of four people is ok, but stealing some papers is a much worse crime???
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A scandal worse than Watergate Empty The four dead wasn't a murder, it was a Neglectful Oversight—caused by a movie.

Post  News Hawk Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:31 am

WHL wrote:I guess the murder of four people is ok, but stealing some papers is a much worse crime???
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Post  Outerlimits Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:42 am

News Buzzard wrote:There is no comparison between Watergate and the IRS targeting. The underlying issue with Watergate was a burglary, which is a felony, and the ensuing coverup that went all the way to the White House. The IRS targeting probe has no criminal basis and will wash out, just like Benghazi and the AP investigation.


 
 
 
 

When one lies to congress, there is a crime committed.
 
When one intentionally misleads congress, there is a crime committed.
 
When on deceives a federal judge to illegally obtain a warrant, there is a crime committed.
 
When one "pleads the Fifth" to avoid incriminating themselves, there is a crime committed.
 
When the IRS gave the donor list from the National Organization for Marriage to Planed Parenthood, There was a crime committed.
 
When the IRS damaged, demeaned, and caused financial loss to certain groups based upon their beliefs, there is a crime committed.
 
 
 
Keep in mind, Nixon was taken down over the cover-up, not the break-in.
 
 
 
Obama is either completely incompetent and was ignorant of the actions of his administration, or he had knowledge of these crimes and participated in the cover-up.
 
 
 
Either way, WE THE PEOPLE have a right to know.
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Post  News Buzzard Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:51 am

Too bad for you that you have none of the above, but keep your best guy on the case, Grand Theft Auto, Darrell Issa!
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Post  fshnski Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:14 am

News Buzzard wrote:Too bad for you that you have none of the above, but keep your best guy on the case, Grand Theft Auto, Darrell Issa!



That sounds like the attitude of a frickin' punk hoodlum who thinks he's above the law.
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Post  Outerlimits Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:26 am

News Buzzard wrote:Too bad for you that you have none of the above, but keep your best guy on the case, Grand Theft Auto, Darrell Issa!

Really, none of the above?  How do you figure that?
 
 
Is it really your opinion that, Americans don’t need to know the truth.
 
 
Your only defense is that the Chairman of the House Oversight Committee may have committed a crime over 40 years ago, therefore all your heroes are innocent. lol!
 
Solid reasoning there.
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Post  News Buzzard Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:45 am

Outerlimits wrote:
News Buzzard wrote:There is no comparison between Watergate and the IRS targeting. The underlying issue with Watergate was a burglary, which is a felony, and the ensuing coverup that went all the way to the White House. The IRS targeting probe has no criminal basis and will wash out, just like Benghazi and the AP investigation.






 
 
 
 

When one lies to congress, there is a crime committed.
 
When one intentionally misleads congress, there is a crime committed.
 
When on deceives a federal judge to illegally obtain a warrant, there is a crime committed.
 
When one "pleads the Fifth" to avoid incriminating themselves, there is a crime committed.
 
When the IRS gave the donor list from the National Organization for Marriage to Planed Parenthood, There was a crime committed.
 
When the IRS damaged, demeaned, and caused financial loss to certain groups based upon their beliefs, there is a crime committed.
 
 
 
Keep in mind, Nixon was taken down over the cover-up, not the break-in.
 
 
 
Obama is either completely incompetent and was ignorant of the actions of his administration, or he had knowledge of these crimes and participated in the cover-up.
 
 
 
Either way, WE THE PEOPLE have a right to know.


Outerlimits, the Republicans have not come up with one ounce of proof on any of the items you mentioned above, and pleading the 5th does not constitute a crime. Anything you read coming out of the Republican's mouths starts with a statement like "It's inconceivable that.........." A speculative statement does not constitute "probable cause" that a crime was committed. This is the most pathetic and embarrassing witch hunt I've ever seen in my life, and can only make the Democratic party stronger. Just look at the polling numbers of congress. The Republicans control the House and use the filibuster with reckless abandon in the Senate. The Republicans need new strategists because their game plan is not working!
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Post  News Pigeon Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:01 am

News Buzzard wrote:


. This is the most pathetic and embarrassing witch hunt I've ever seen in my life, and can only make the Democratic party stronger. The Republicans need new strategists because their game plan is not working.


Agreed....and it will be proven true when Hillary turns Texas blue in 2016! Watch & see.....Wink
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Post  News Pigeon Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:04 am

fshnski wrote:
News Buzzard wrote:Too bad for you that you have none of the above, but keep your best guy on the case, Grand Theft Auto, Darrell Issa!







That sounds like the attitude of a frickin' punk hoodlum who thinks he's above the law.


Exactly....that's what Darryl Issa is...was...and will always be!!!! He's a pathetic loser who keeps himself relevant by manufacturing scandals!!
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Post  Outerlimits Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:08 am

This is not about the 2016 election, or your left wing prognostications
 
   
This is about getting to the truth.
   
 
1.Holder did lie to congress.   
 
  
Holder told Congress that he has never been “involved in” “potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material.”  Holder’s testimony doesn’t square with statements in an affidavit, filed in court as an attachment to an application Holder signed days before his testimony, stating that there is probable cause to believe that Fox News correspondent James Rosen had violated the law.
Holder’s defense:  He never had any intension to prosecute Rosen therefore there was never a potential prosecution. lol! 
  
 
IF that is true then Holder lied to the federal judge to obtain the warrant and he misled Congress. 
 
  
2. When one “pleads the fifth” one is refusing to testify on the grounds that one could incriminate oneself.  If there was not crime, how could one incriminate oneself?
   
3. There is proof the IRS gave the donor list to Planned Parenthood, the FBI is investigating.  There is proof the IRS discriminated and they have actually admitted to it.
 
  
Did Obama know?  Maybe, maybe not.
 
  
 
Once again, is it your opinion we don’t have the right to know?
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Post  News Buzzard Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:14 am

You're still scratching and clawing away with the hope you're going to find something, Outerlimits, but nothing will come out of any of this, except embarrassment for the Republicans.
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Post  News Pigeon Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:21 am

I don't think anyone is arguing against the need to clean up most government entities but that's not to say that "Obama is over-seeing a systematic destruction of our country"...this crap is long in the making and didn't begin yesterday! Government has been co-empted by corporate interests and the congressional leaders answer ONLY to their corporate benefactors. The few who care about the "people" are getting out or are being primaried out of office ....
Isn't it time for "the people' to come together in an effort to hold our country together??
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Post  fshnski Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:31 am

The people can't be more important than our country!
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Post  Outerlimits Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:34 am

Buzzard,

You have NO PROBLEM with what the IRS did?
 
You have NO PROBLEM with the AG lying?
 
You have NO PROBLEM with multiple government agencies breaking the law, lying covering and refusing to hold those responsible, accountable?
 
 
If you are not embarrassed by the actions of the Administration, the State Department, the Justice Department, and the IRS, there is really something wrong.  If you fail to see any wrongdoing, you are lying to yourself.
 
OBAMA should be out in front of all these scandals.  He should be on TV every day demanding answers, demanding accountability and demanding transparency.  If Obama is not involved, an investigation would PROVE his innocents and out the people behind these crimes.  Obama should be the #1 advocate for the investigations...but once again he is absent. 
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Post  News Buzzard Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:11 pm

Accusations that reek of partisanship are not credible, Outerlimits. There is no proof that any targeting by the IRS (if it was in fact targeting or not just clerical categorizing) came from the White House.

Congress says Holder lied about the Rosen case. He said he wasn't interested in prosecuting Rosen or anyone in the media, but rather using the information to find the source of the leaks. There is no lie if the unintended consequence was a prosecution of Rosen.

A week before Lois Lerner appeared before Issa's kangaroo committee, a congressman on Camp's committee said at public hearing that she lied to Congress. (perjury is a felony) What choice did she have a week later when she appeared before Issa's committee, but to take the 5th. I'm very surprised that you, Outerlimits, conclude that taking the 5th is presumptive evidence of guilt. Nothing is further from the truth in America, and you know it.

Issa insists at a coverup at Benghazi, and that we let the Americans die without any attempt at rescue, but every credible person, including former Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, stated that a rescue was impossible. That investigation will go nowhere.

I fully believe that there is fundamental, race based hatred for Obama throughout this country, hence all of these frothing at the mouth investigations.

It's now all about 2016, Outerlimits, and the Republicans are damaging themselves beyond repair.
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