Re: GOP To Shift Tone On Obamacare

**WHL** Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:29 pm

I really don't care what you think of me, NP. You and MB write such pompous and obnoxious posts, I just have to close out sometimes like today. I can't even respond to most of what you say.

News Buzzard Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:31 pm

Anti Federalist wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:But have no fear NB and NP and folks like them...

Brat will probably lose the general and you'll pick up a seat for Your Team.

Because, and even though Brat is not a "perfect" liberty candidate and he is better than the NSA supporting Cantor, most people do not have any desire to upset the apple cart too much.

In spite of all the bitching, people are pretty much content they way things are.

They do not want freedom and independence, that's too much hard work.

They want to be fed, and entertained, and have the ability to boss their fellow man around, or vote to take his stuff from him, in order to vote themselves more "free" shit.

The welfare state, and the warfare state, and the police state...they have no real objection to any of them.

Does anybody honestly deny this to be true?

Most of your statement is not true !

News Pigeon Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:39 pm

WHL wrote:The general consensus from what I have heard so far is that Brat will win.

NP complains because ONE college course out of probably 6000 or maybe 60,000 is not liberal. What a joke.

Did you not write this? You can't make accusations and then feign that your sensitivities were violated when you can't defend your crap.

News Pigeon Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:44 pm

Anti Federalist wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:But have no fear NB and NP and folks like them...

Brat will probably lose the general and you'll pick up a seat for Your Team.

Because, and even though Brat is not a "perfect" liberty candidate and he is better than the NSA supporting Cantor, most people do not have any desire to upset the apple cart too much.

In spite of all the bitching, people are pretty much content they way things are.

They do not want freedom and independence, that's too much hard work.

They want to be fed, and entertained, and have the ability to boss their fellow man around, or vote to take his stuff from him, in order to vote themselves more "free" shit.

The welfare state, and the warfare state, and the police state...they have no real objection to any of them.

Does anybody honestly deny this to be true?

Nope, not even close to reality...what would be your perfect society? examples pls because I only hear you bitch about what it isn't...

News Buzzard Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:45 pm

News Pigeon wrote:
WHL wrote:The general consensus from what I have heard so far is that Brat will win.

NP complains because ONE college course out of probably 6000 or maybe 60,000 is not liberal. What a joke.

Did you not write this? You can't make accusations and then feign that your sensitivities were violated when you can't defend your crap.

That's standard operating procedure, News Pigeon. They can't let the facts get in their way! Who the hell is MB ?

News Pigeon Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:49 pm

News Buzzard wrote:
News Pigeon wrote:
WHL wrote:The general consensus from what I have heard so far is that Brat will win.

NP complains because ONE college course out of probably 6000 or maybe 60,000 is not liberal. What a joke.

Did you not write this? You can't make accusations and then feign that your sensitivities were violated when you can't defend your crap.

That's standard operating procedure, News Pigeon. They can't let the facts get in their way! Who the hell is MB ?

lol:.....that's the working mind of a free-thinker...

News Buzzard Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:51 pm

Anti Federalist Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:43 pm

News Buzzard wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:But have no fear NB and NP and folks like them...

Brat will probably lose the general and you'll pick up a seat for Your Team.

Because, and even though Brat is not a "perfect" liberty candidate and he is better than the NSA supporting Cantor, most people do not have any desire to upset the apple cart too much.

In spite of all the bitching, people are pretty much content they way things are.

They do not want freedom and independence, that's too much hard work.

They want to be fed, and entertained, and have the ability to boss their fellow man around, or vote to take his stuff from him, in order to vote themselves more "free" shit.

The welfare state, and the warfare state, and the police state...they have no real objection to any of them.

Does anybody honestly deny this to be true?

Most of your statement is not true !

So show me the hordes of voters lining up to reduce the size and power of government, dismantle the spy state, return the military equipment, withdraw the troops and reduce welfare spending.

You folks on the "left" side of welfare/warfare state have it easy, all you need to do is keep promising more and more "free stuff" and watch Boobus lap it up.

Anti Federalist Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:50 pm

News Pigeon wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:But have no fear NB and NP and folks like them...

Brat will probably lose the general and you'll pick up a seat for Your Team.

Because, and even though Brat is not a "perfect" liberty candidate and he is better than the NSA supporting Cantor, most people do not have any desire to upset the apple cart too much.

In spite of all the bitching, people are pretty much content they way things are.

They do not want freedom and independence, that's too much hard work.

They want to be fed, and entertained, and have the ability to boss their fellow man around, or vote to take his stuff from him, in order to vote themselves more "free" shit.

The welfare state, and the warfare state, and the police state...they have no real objection to any of them.

Does anybody honestly deny this to be true?

Nope, not even close to reality...what would be your perfect society? examples pls because I only hear you bitch about what it isn't...

A society in which every person is not under, or has to live under the assumption that they may be under, 24/7 government surveillance.

A society in which it is NOT the accepted norm to put a gun to people's heads and take their stuff because a majority of their neighbors voted to rob them.

Just for starters.

Dave Brat, at least in his rhetoric, seems to agree.

I, therefore, donated hard cash to his campaign to unseat the awful Cantor.

You seem to think I don't exist, however, that nobody would ever possibly support such a man, that only the evil forces of the Koch brothers could pull such a stunt off.

Which, if true, only helps to validate my points.

News Pigeon Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:53 pm

Yeah, let me know when you're ready to have an honest conversation about income inequality and poverty in this country.
Median wages...the wages of middle-income earners...have been stagnant for decades. People recognize there is growing inequality in this country and that something is amiss when companies are doing well but people aren’t, when dividends, stock prices, and CEO salaries rise but wages don’t. When you're ready to admit the reason for this, then we can talk about the "takers vs the makers" theory.

Anti Federalist Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:56 pm

News Pigeon wrote:Yeah, let me know when you're ready to have an honest conversation about income inequality and poverty in this country.
Median wages...the wages of middle-income earners...have been stagnant for decades. People recognize there is growing inequality in this country and that something is amiss when companies are doing well but people aren’t, when dividends, stock prices, and CEO salaries rise but wages don’t. When you're ready to admit the reason for this, then we can talk about the "takers vs the makers" theory.

So what is your solution?

Send in a SWAT team and seize it all?

I will have an honest discussion about the collapse of the middle class when you acknowledge that policies deliberately put in place by government, is the primary causal factor of that collapse.

News Pigeon Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:02 pm

Anti Federalist wrote:
News Pigeon wrote:Yeah, let me know when you're ready to have an honest conversation about income inequality and poverty in this country.
Median wages...the wages of middle-income earners...have been stagnant for decades. People recognize there is growing inequality in this country and that something is amiss when companies are doing well but people aren’t, when dividends, stock prices, and CEO salaries rise but wages don’t. When you're ready to admit the reason for this, then we can talk about the "takers vs the makers" theory.

So what is your solution?

Send in a SWAT team and seize it all?

I will have an honest discussion about the collapse of the middle class when you acknowledge that policies deliberately put in place by government, is the primary causal factor of that collapse.

I'm liberal remember, non-violent bro....
I agree detrimental policies are put in place by government policos that are bought and paid for by big business... but you said that was OK with you...you didn't bat an eye when I mentioned ALEC and it's purpose. care to comment on that organization?

American Legislative Exchange Council or ALEC
The American Legislative Exchange Council is a 501 organization of conservative state legislators and private sector representatives that shares and drafts model state-level legislation for national distribution.

Anti Federalist Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:11 pm

News Pigeon wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:
News Pigeon wrote:Yeah, let me know when you're ready to have an honest conversation about income inequality and poverty in this country.
Median wages...the wages of middle-income earners...have been stagnant for decades. People recognize there is growing inequality in this country and that something is amiss when companies are doing well but people aren’t, when dividends, stock prices, and CEO salaries rise but wages don’t. When you're ready to admit the reason for this, then we can talk about the "takers vs the makers" theory.

So what is your solution?

Send in a SWAT team and seize it all?

I will have an honest discussion about the collapse of the middle class when you acknowledge that policies deliberately put in place by government, is the primary causal factor of that collapse.

I'm liberal remember, non-violent bro....
I agree detrimental policies are put in place by government policos that are bought and paid for by big business... but you said that was OK with you.

Do you support progressive taxation?

The drug war?

"Free" public schools?

The Global War on Terrorism?

If so, you are very violent, only you let somebody else do the violence for you.

I said that if government did not wield the power that does, then "buying politicians" would be pretty pointless.

We could turn the economy and middle class around tomorrow by doing four things:

1 - Enact a 30% across the board import tariff.
2 - Eliminate personal and corporate income taxation.
3 - Eliminate or massively reform environmental and business regulations.
4 - Eliminate or massively reform tort law.

News Buzzard Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:54 am

Sixty Six percent of the respondents in the latest Bloomberg poll want to keep Obamacare, this despite the flurry of negative attacks:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-12/health-care-remains-drag-for-democrats-as-53-oppose-law.html

Anti Federalist Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:12 pm

News Buzzard wrote:Sixty Six percent of the respondents in the latest Bloomberg poll want to keep Obamacare, this despite the flurry of negative attacks:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-12/health-care-remains-drag-for-democrats-as-53-oppose-law.html

Fifty-three percent of Americans oppose the law

Razz

News Buzzard Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:59 pm

Anti Federalist wrote:
News Buzzard wrote:Sixty Six percent of the respondents in the latest Bloomberg poll want to keep Obamacare, this despite the flurry of negative attacks:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-12/health-care-remains-drag-for-democrats-as-53-oppose-law.html

Fifty-three percent of Americans oppose the law

The law is already in place and the most important fact is that 66% of the respondents oppose a repeal ! Sixteen million people now have health insurance because of Obamacare and I would like to know on what planet do you think it would be repealed ?

**WHL** Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:35 pm

66% of the people must be stupid-or want something for nothing.

Anti Federalist Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:45 pm

News Buzzard wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:
News Buzzard wrote:Sixty Six percent of the respondents in the latest Bloomberg poll want to keep Obamacare, this despite the flurry of negative attacks:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-12/health-care-remains-drag-for-democrats-as-53-oppose-law.html

Fifty-three percent of Americans oppose the law

The law is already in place and the most important fact is that 66% of the respondents oppose a repeal ! Sixteen million people now have health insurance because of Obamacare and I would like to know on what planet do you think it would be repealed ?

Fifty-three percent of Americans oppose the law.

That's over half.

Isn't that how democracy is supposed to work?

I really get so confused about this... Laughing

News Buzzard Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:04 pm

Obama and the Democrats won the White House and the Congress on the plank of passing an affordable healthcare act, and they passed it. The Republicans have been spending millions and trying to force feed the country for the past 5 years that Obamacare is no good and will destroy the country, hence the law's continuing drag in popularity.

The bottom line is that 66% of the people don't want Obamacare to be repealed and 16 million people now have health insurance as a result. If the Republicans think it should be repealed, let them take their best shot !

That's how it works ! Laughing

News Pigeon Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:29 pm

Anti Federalist wrote:

Fifty-three percent of Americans oppose the law.

I think if you look closer at that number, you'll find that most of that 53% don't like the fact that it's not a single payer system...

US News & World Report

On Obamacare, ‘Disapprove’ Doesn’t Mean What the GOP Thinks It Means
The law remains unpopular, but not because people buy the GOP’s arguments.
By Robert Schlesinger

At this point it's not news that the broad disapproval of Obamacare in polls that conservatives like to cite does not mean what they think it means, but two more polls were released today that drive home the point.

First there was the CNN/ORC International poll, which found that 56 percent of Americans oppose the Affordable Care Act. While that sounds damning for the law -- and could prove that Ted Cruz's much-discussed " American people" who are directing him to continue to try to shut down the government in an effort to stop the law do exist -- there's one problem for the conservative position. As CNN's Paul Steinhauser reports:

According to the poll, just more than four in 10 say they favor the law, with 56% opposed to it.

But of those opposed, 38% say they are against the law because they think it's too liberal and 12% say it's not liberal enough. That means that 53% either support Obamacare, or say it's not liberal enough.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2013/10/21/more-polls-show-gop-misreads-public-on-obamacare

Anti Federalist Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:47 pm

News Pigeon wrote:
Anti Federalist wrote:

Fifty-three percent of Americans oppose the law.

I think if you look closer at that number, you'll find that most of that 53% don't like the fact that it's not a single payer system..

I don't doubt that at all.

I've maintained all along that RomBama/Care is designed to fail, so that when it does, the "free market" can be blamed and single payer "free" healthcare will sail through.

I'm quite sure that this is also why the FedGov and Congress have such low approval ratings as well, people are angry that they are not giving away enough "free stuff" and not regulating and taxing and taking away freedom enough.

Which proves my earlier point: People don't want freedom, they want to be taken care of: fed, entertained and boss around their fellow man around just a little bit more than they are being bossed around.

News Pigeon Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:01 pm

...or maybe they just don't like the idea of losing everything they own due to a health crisis....if everyone paid into a medicare type healthcare system, we'd all be better off. I can't imagine what it must be like to have cancer and have no means of buying insurance.

News Buzzard Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:22 pm

News Pigeon wrote: ...or maybe they just don't like the idea of losing everything they own due to a health crisis....if everyone paid into a medicare type healthcare system, we'd all be better off. I can't imagine what it must be like to have cancer and have no means of buying insurance.

That's a good point and describes what it should be all about. We would all be better off.

Anti Federalist Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:10 pm

News Pigeon wrote: ...or maybe they just don't like the idea of losing everything they own due to a health crisis....if everyone paid into a medicare type healthcare system, we'd all be better off. I can't imagine what it must be like to have cancer and have no means of buying insurance.

Yeah, I can totally see the benefit of sending somebody to rob you to pay for my medical treatments.

**WHL** Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:27 am

How would a single payer system work when those who have signed up for Obamacare don't even want to pay now? Oh, wait a minute, we would pay for ours and their's too, just like we do now. Just like we always have.

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