Baby loons

Amy B wrote:

obervantone wrote:

Amy B
Actually that could be be the signature for Erica "Hazzard", the forerunner poster girl for your anti speed limit crusade who headed the now disgraced NHRBA before your SBONH took up the cause. I received an email/message today from someone who knows the history of this movement better than I and had been following this thread. He said that you and Red Hill are officers/members of Erica's lost cause reincarnation, SBONH. This explains a lot. "Birds of a feather"(in your case Magpies)... "All for one, one for all". This explains a lot.  Are you the one he referred to as "Baghdad Bob" whose missive to the faithful got leaked and published in the Laconia Daily Sun? Good grief, no wonder your mission imploded. First the spokesperson for the cause crashes her boat on the rocks and kills her best friend making national headlines, and then a rather embarrassing notification to your brethen gets printed in the LDS. You guys are a piece of work. Have you no shame?

As is the case with your claim that speed limits are impacting loons, you need better sources for the rant that you posted above.  
Amy B

Again, my first post:

   Amy B wrote:One might argue that the speed limit on the lake has made a major contribution to the loon revival. We know that the chicks are far more buoyant than their parents and less able to maneuver out of harm's way should a performance boat be "doubling the speed limit". This is a good sign.

And again Page 6 and I am still waiting for your source...

But I've given it to you several times today, straw man. So give us your side of the Erica Hazzard story. Are you Baghdad Bob? We know RH is the prez. Waiting for the answer.

I am the president of the Moultonboro Snowmobile Club and president of my own little business... that is enough. At one point I was more involved with SBONH (and owned a bowrider that could do 46 MPH). I still am involved with the LR Power Squadron. Tell whomever emailed you to keep up!

News Hawk wrote:

Amy B wrote:But I've given it to you several times today, straw man. So give us your side of the Erica Hazzard story. Are you Baghdad Bob? We know RH is the prez. Waiting for the answer.

The Prez is busy in Concord to de-list the Loon as endangered in the state.

  


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If you are referring to me, you are wrong, lying and slandering me. Yes, slander... my identity is known on this forum and the FATP.

Using Forumotion, and their application called "Servimg"—this gardening website offers the best way to post your pictures:

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t243-b-tutorial-on-posting-pics

I don't know if it's the same procedure for Macs.

News Hawk wrote:Using Forumotion, and their application called "Servimg"—this gardening website offers the best way to post your pictures:

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t243-b-tutorial-on-posting-pics

I don't know if it's the same procedure for Macs.

You should call MP, the thunder outside is loud and it is upsetting the loons...

I had no problem uploading the picture of the bow of my boat, you know Bob, the one that clearly shows that I can see objects 10' in front of my boat. The one that you ignored.

red_hill wrote:

News Hawk wrote:

Amy B wrote:But I've given it to you several times today, straw man. So give us your side of the Erica Hazzard story. Are you Baghdad Bob? We know RH is the prez. Waiting for the answer.

The Prez is busy in Concord to de-list the Loon as endangered in the state.

  


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If you are referring to me, you are wrong, lying and slandering me. Yes, slander... my identity is known on this forum and the FATP.

I've changed the above. I don't think you are busy de-listing Loons as "threatened or endangered".

Are you back to being happy again?

 

red_hill wrote:"...You should call MP, the thunder outside is loud and it is upsetting the loons...

I had no problem uploading the picture of the bow of my boat, you know, the one that clearly shows that I can see objects 10' in front of my boat. The one that you ignored..."

Loons have lived with natural thunder for millions of years. If lightning and thunder "rejection" wasn't in their gene pool, they'd have died off. They're threatened in New Hampshire, but not by lightning and thunder.

Gunshots, pneumatic drills, fireworks, and other loud noises are new to them, and can be expected to stress them—especially right beside the lake during summer, when they are trying to deal with their survival as a species.

As to "the view" over your bow: If I placed a decoy ten feet in front of your bow would you be able to see it while seated?

Just this week, a powerboat ran over a canoe. What rule was the canoeist violating?

I'm afraid "operator error" is the rule powerboat "drivers" must be burdened with. Please don't consider kayaks, rowboats, sculls, inflatables, swimmers and canoeists "fresh meat" for your so-called sport.

  


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News Hawk wrote:

red_hill wrote:"...You should call MP, the thunder outside is loud and it is upsetting the loons...

I had no problem uploading the picture of the bow of my boat, you know, the one that clearly shows that I can see objects 10' in front of my boat. The one that you ignored..."

Loons have lived with natural thunder for millions of years. If lightning and thunder "rejection" wasn't in their gene pool, they'd have died off. They're threatened in New Hampshire, but not by lightning and thunder.

Gunshots, pneumatic drills, fireworks, and other loud noises are new to them, and can be expected to stress them—especially right beside the lake during summer, when they are trying to deal with their survival as a species.

As to "the view" over your bow: If I placed a decoy ten feet in front of your bow would you be able to see it while seated?

Just this week, a powerboat ran over a canoe. What rule was the canoeist violating?

I'm afraid "operator error" is the rule powerboat "drivers" must be burdened with. Please don't consider kayaks, rowboats, sculls, inflatables, swimmers and canoeists "fresh meat" for your so-called sport.

  


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The guy driving the ski boat needs to have his vision checked. The canoeist was not at fault. I don't consider anyone fresh meat for anything.  I operate several types of vessels, powered and non. I consider their operation to be fun and a convenient way to get around, but not a sport. Please don't project your ignorance onto others.

My boat has flip up bolsters, I stand when operating, so I can't answer your question. I can see better than I can behind the sheet on my little Lazer.

Finally, thunder and fireworks are new to every hatchling. Fireworks and thunder are not new to any adult loon. Your argument fails.

red_hill wrote:"...My boat has flip up bolsters, I stand when operating, so I can't answer your question..."

At one time, the NHMP Boating Guidebook recommended NOT standing up in your boat.

What part did "bolsters" have in this recounting?

"...The engine hatch, cockpit and deck with the exception of a 3 inch vee section at the bow separated from the hull. Port drive sheared off breaking the tie-bar in half and tearing apart the hydraulic steering cylinders. Bolsters, dash everything just exploded. We ended up about 20 yard apart from each other without any boat. I ended up being pushed thru the starboard section of the hull, one fellow when thru the port and the driver ended up underwater with a section of deck on him."
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/91893-thrown-out-boat-7.html

red_hill wrote:"...Finally, thunder and fireworks are new to every hatchling. Fireworks and thunder are not new to any adult loon. Your argument fails..."

And you know this, how?

  


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News Hawk wrote:

red_hill wrote:"...Finally, thunder and fireworks are new to every hatchling. Fireworks and thunder are not new to any adult loon. Your argument fails..."

And you know this, how?

  


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Umm, because everything is new to a hatchling. Adult loons have been hearing thunder and fireworks for their entire lives. It's nature. Are fireworks new to you? Are they new to a new born?

News Hawk wrote:

At one time, the NHMP Boating Guidebook recommended not standing up in your boat.

At one time, "they" thought you could catch a cold from being out in the cold.

The story cited by you, as usual, is not germane. My boat can only do 80-85 MPH getting towed behind my pickup truck... and we have a SL on this lake!!  

Hey Eddie...
We're up to page 8...still waiting so let me help you out on this...

We are up to page 8 waiting for your proof that the speed limits and loon population are linked because none exists.

You can't link what isn't there.

Just admit it, you just came up with that little information all on your own in the hope that someone, somewhere will buy into it. There is absolutely nothing to back up your "facts" since it is paddle boats, not powerboats, that have the greatest negative impact on nesting loons....see the research I provided from Isle Royale National Park and the comments of a wildlife biologist who works for NH Fish & Game.

How's that?

Page 8...still waiting...

red_hill wrote:"...Umm, because everything is new to a hatchling. Adult loons have been hearing thunder and fireworks for their entire lives. It's nature..."

Hatchlings know how to swim from their first hours. They hear sounds from inside the shell—before they are hatched.

Call it "Genetic-Memory"—it is active in all creatures.

  


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I have to jump in here...I never met anyone before that was born with the knowledge of the universe through "Genetic Memory"!   
Infants of all species are born knowing everything...that's priceless!

News Hawk
Hatchlings know how to swim from their first hours. They hear sounds from inside the shell—before they are hatched.

Call it "Genetic-Memory"—it is active in all creatures.

obervantone wrote:I have to jump in here...I never met anyone before that was born with the knowledge of the universe through "Genetic Memory"!    
Infants of all species are born knowing everything...that's priceless!

News Hawk
Hatchlings know how to swim from their first hours. They hear sounds from inside the shell—before they are hatched.

Call it "Genetic-Memory"—it is active in all creatures.

To use your logic, they have been hearing fireworks in the shell too. Give it up, really, you are really reaching and failing  

obervantone wrote:Hey Eddie...
We're up to page 8...still waiting so let me help you out on this...

We are up to page 8 waiting for your proof that the speed limits and loon population are linked because none exists.  

You can't link what isn't there.  

Just admit it, you just came up with that little information all on your own in the hope that someone, somewhere will buy into it.  There is absolutely nothing to back up your "facts" since it is paddle boats, not powerboats, that have the greatest negative impact on nesting loons....see the research I provided from Isle Royale National Park and the comments of a wildlife biologist who works for NH Fish & Game.

How's that?

Page 8...still waiting...

You can't read? You asked and asked for the source of the Minnesota Loon article and you got it:     http://www.usllia.org  And of course the documentation from the first article you posted in this thread that said that POWER BOATS ARE THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF LOON CHICK MORTALITY.

Amy B wrote:
As far as:

obervantone wrote:
Your damned right I'm pissed.  You son a bitch - self righteous jackass!   LEAVE THE LOONS ALONE!

 This language is often considered the hallmark of someone with a weak argument and a marginal intellect. We occasionally encounter this behavior at work where said inherently angry person has difficulties getting along with co-workers (and occasionally gets fired) and seems more likely to be involved in domestic difficulties.

 
Which of these apply to you Bobby? Still waiting. Page 7

I finally did it! I had to hit copy on the site and then also on my regular place under my edit button. I wasn't doing that second step. So I hit copy twice and then the normal paste under the paste button. I don't know if that will help someone else who has been having trouble. But you are right, NH it is easy.

Now, back on topic. Look at those sweet loons. How can you guys be so mean to each other over such sweet birds? Be a little nicer and if you can't do that at least don't use REAL names. I don't need the work of deleting them and I am sure the Admin doesn't either if he comes around. Thanks.

No, Eddie apparently reading is not your strong suit.
I have been consistently asking you to attribute your sources specifically your sources for your original statement...

the speed limit on the lake has made a major contribution to the loon revival.

You continue to refuse to provide the source for that statement leading to the conclusion that you just make this stuff up as you go.
Regarding

the documentation from the first article you posted in this thread that said that POWER BOATS ARE THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF LOON CHICK MORTALITY.

Apparently part of the problem here is that you don't know what documentation is and what a reporters interpretation is. While you continue to grasp onto that sentence written by an AP reporter you completely dismiss the statement made by a wildlife biologist for the NHF&G department.

motorboats get a lot of the blame for disturbing the birds, but paddle boats like kayaks and canoes, because they can get closer to the nests, actually can be a greater threat

So hanging onto the words of an AP reporter vs those of a wildlife biologist makes perfect sense, heh?
Brilliant.

BTW this is Page 8 not 7 and we are still waiting for your source of this quote from you.

the speed limit on the lake has made a major contribution to the loon revival

Actually this is what I said: One might argue that the speed limit on the lake has made a major contribution to the loon revival. We know that the chicks are far more buoyant than their parents and less able to maneuver out of harm's way should a performance boat be "doubling the speed limit". This is a good sign.
You seem to have left out the first part of my sentence to try to change it's meaning.

BTW there seems to be some unexplained problems with the article you cited: "However,
in 2002, a year with overall low visitation (328 groups), increased numbers of paddlers
traveling within specified distances of loon nests had either no significant effect on loon
nesting success (p=0.40 for 20 m) or a marginally significant positive effect (p=0.15 for
55 m; p=0.07 for 155 m)".


Per your first article: "Biologists say people should stay at least 150 feet away from adult loons and their chicks. Boat collisions are the greatest human-related cause of chick mortality and the third highest cause of adult loon mortality, following lead poisoning or injury from fishing tackle". But what do the biologists know.

Still waiting for your answer regarding my last post, page 8.

Since you are selective in your quotes I thought I would give it a try to see if it would produce a source...it did not.

If you want to think I'm "Bobby" you go right ahead, it just means that you are clueless to who I am.

Per your first article: "Biologists say people should stay at least 150 feet away from adult loons and their chicks. Boat collisions are the greatest human-related cause of chick mortality and the third highest cause of adult loon mortality, following lead poisoning or injury from fishing tackle". But what do the biologists know.

The first sentence is absolutely accurate and likely violated by paddle boats on a routine and far more frequent basis than powerboats...see the research from the Isle Royale National Park...the second sentence was a conclusion drawn by the AP reporter...the third was mine in response to you and New Hawk dismissing the comments of the wildlife biologist that stated paddle boats can pose a greater threat to nesting loons than powerboats that usually get the blame.

As the information I provided from the Loon Preservation Committee showed, contrary to what the AP reporter said, powerboats are the number 6 cause of loon deaths accounting for 5% (14 birds) over a 22 year period.

Let's get back to your statement and see if YOU can provide a source other than the voices in your head.

Page 9 still waiting...

But how do you know that the 2nd sentence is made up by the AP reporter? Where's your documentation? Looks to me like the biologists are saying to stay 125' away from loons because power boats are the number one cause of loon mortality. How would the AP reporter know that without the input from the biologist? Is he making it up just to play tricks on us? Again...where is your documentation? Nor have you addressed my Isle Royale question regarding the data that showed paddlers did not impact loons.

Mrs. Chase and I had a discussion over dinner last night. We discussed SBONH, NHRBA, and some of the mistakes they made in their quest. This came up partially in response to the way you have expressed yourself on this forum. "Are you  f-ing kidding" "you son of bitch"  "I'm pissed" "jackass". We all hear these words, it's really no big deal. But the issue of why your cause failed by such a landslide margin may have had in part something to do with so many of your group being unable to keep their mouths shut. We've already discussed Bagdad Bob's insulting and immature leaked missive that was printed in the Laconia Daily Sun. We know of a bit of immature bragging of binge drinking and doubling the speed limit. Even the NHRBA prez to the earlier anti SL movement, Erica Blizzard, didn't know when to be quiet, step out of the limelight, and behave. When people had had enough of her...there she was, making a huge case that losing her boating license violated her rights.

  In this particular thread you have responded with bullying obscene language. Do you think this helps people's perception of your intelligence and the worthiness of your cause? This kind of behavior did not impress our legislators in Concord either and undoubtedly contributed to the landslide victory of the SL.

  Now...it seems clear that the SL is here to stay and some are again talking of a state wide speed limit. But for your own edification if you're trying to impress someone with your knowledge, committment, and sincerity you might want to change your approach. There may be some future cause that you wish to embrace and you do indeed need a new approach.

Eddie, Eddie Eddie...

But how do you know that the 2nd sentence is made up by the AP reporter? Where's your documentation? Looks to me like the biologists are saying to stay 125' away from loons because power boats are the number one cause of loon mortality. How would the AP reporter know that without the input from the biologist? Is he making it up just to play tricks on us? Again...where is your documentation? Nor have you addressed my Isle Royale question regarding the data that showed paddlers did not impact loons.

How do I know? Because I looked at, and posted, the breakdown from the Loon Preservation Committee that shows the #6 cause of fatalities in loons as power boats, 14 birds over 22 years. The breakdown does not differentiate between adults and chicks, so both are included in the figure. Any veteran reporter would have noticed that discrepancy and asked for an explaination.

Are you now claiming that it is alright for paddlers to harass loon nests because there was an anomoly in a research study that showed 1/3...33% of all paddlers, who presumably know better since they are in a sanctuary, harassed loon nesting areas? Really? You want to go there? So if a third of paddlers who presumably know better are doing it in a sanctuary how many hundreds of paddlers do you figure are doing it on Lake Winnipesaukee, a recreational area with people out having fun?

Also interesting from the Loon Preservaton Committee data is that there is a very large percentage of loon deaths attributed to unknown or others...but none attributed to paddlers...that leads to the logical conclusion that paddlers harassing loon nests are a major part of that unknown or other number.

Regarding your rant about NHRBA and SBONH, I really don't care what you think, that is not the topic it is just something that you insist on bring up. The speed limit is also not the topic with the exception of how it pertains to your initial statement.

We both know that you remember what you wrote since you wrote it just two posts ago. So since we both know that you are aware of what you wrote, how about sharing your source for that brilliant conclusion? I don't think you ever will since it is bull shit that you made up.

Page 9...your move.

obervantone wrote:
Are you now claiming that it is alright for paddlers to harass loon nests because there was an anomoly in a research study that showed...

Here we go again straw man. It's as if somehow in the back of your mind if you can prove that paddlers are the greatest threat to Winnipesaukee then you might be able to take it to the state legislature and have the SL removed. Get over it.


Bobbie, Bobbie, Bobbie. Well actually I'm still waiting for your response to several unanswered questions from my last few posts. Yes, still waiting, page 9.

I believe I have answered all of them, you however have not.

Page 9...continuing to wait, and wait, and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait.